Is Keto a gateway drug to health or disordered eating?

#22

I do like the way your clear observations and contextualisation cut through to the points @SkyStars

#24

Crikey Regina the hard held on to skin tags are at risk.

I remember Jimmy Moore getting excited (as he does) about disappearing skin tags as his metabolic health improved.

But let me dry off the rain dance a bit. When one is in, or cycles through*, Keto purgatory (that zone unmeasured where people think they are in nutritional ketosis because they are sure they are eating Keto but not actually keeping track of blood ketones), those skin tags can return. They are messengers like the crows in Game of Ketones.

I wonder in the research if a level or depth of nutritional ketosis, or circulating insulin, is the threshold for seeing these skin tag harbingers of metabolic syndrome?

*sounds like a dodgy package tour

(Paulene ) #25

That is interesting. I only started getting skin tags when I was pregnant with my first, and got more with #2 & #3. I was very healthy during pregnancy otherwise, no gestational diabietes, no pre-eclampsia. Actually, I was in mild ketosis every time the Dr. checked urine, which prob explains why I was back at my pre-pregnancy weight within a month of giving birth.
I am only 3 months on keto so am going to take photos of skin tags now for comparison photos later.

#26

wow lol
I wanna jump into the conversation in some way but I am mixed up in a way also. hmmm, not sure what to type on all this just yet :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #27

Still curious whether having skin tags always points to insulin resistance. Or whether it can be just heredity.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #28

So a :heart: brought me back to this thread and so adding more before this topic is dead. Regina I have often thought of the nature of things blamed on heredity and it’s quite a puzzle. Some things it seems people just give in to. Because for instance,

“Mom and Dad are diabetic and I am headed there too, I guess it’s genetic.”

It seems a mystery to me. Some things are definitely passed along with genetics, appearance, male pattern baldness, variation in the ability to utilize certain nutrients because of an enzyme variation…etc. Personally I don’t believe that’s the case with metabolic syndrome issues and other man made diseases. I believe that our parents feed us the way they eat and that can have more influence over us than genetics. You aren’t destined for diabetes because of genetics but because we grow up eating the same garbage diet our parents ate to get messed up. Kind of like child abuse going from one generation to the next until we stop that cycle. We don’t blame family history of child abuse on genetics and I refuse to accept a disease is inevitable because of my parents. So yeah, teeter-tottering on the edge of KETO and not fully recovering from metabolic issues, and bouncing in and out of ketosis triggering old metabolic issues as FrankoBear suggested makes a ton of sense to me.

Interesting question with what I believe has a simple answer if you’re not too dogmatic to consider evolution. If we evolved from vegetarian lesser primate these are just leftovers from DNA of previous genetics of other animals. We have reptilian and amphibian and fish DNA that is dormant but still passed on. We have an endocannabinoid system that carries on countless functions in the body. We adapted to produce endogenous cannabinoids we need. My theory is that cannabis was an important food source for some distant ancestor species and our DNA adapted to produce those important required compounds. Maybe that’s why many find cannabis so effective for different medical conditions, because of that built in system. We have an omnivore capable metabolism, but I see plant foods as a necessary backup for survival purposes, not necessary the optimal one. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #29

I love it. Thank you for the reply @David_Stilley. Having read all that, still going to derm to have them frozen off. I’ve got about 10 I’m picking at, at 27 had like 30 removed. Hopefully, continuing keto, won’t get any more.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #30

You didn’t know my mother. Meat, salad and green and yellow veg at dinner. No snacks. Once a week pasta. Yes, cereal at breakfast. I was allowed my first seven up at 15.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #31

Not what I would call a hard fast rule, we still control our destiny somewhat. Did your mother have any IR or metabolic issues? Did she have a problem with skin tags? :cowboy_hat_face:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #32

Perhaps that is why I am still healthy at 62?

(Empress of the Unexpected) #33

Okay, I skipped over that part. I was adopted by my father’s aunt. Long story. No, she died at home at 94 from thyroid cancer. Took a few excedrin over the years for migraines. Her mother also died in her sleep at 94. My biological mother died in an accident at 44, so no clue. BUT, my half sister on my mother’s side is 82 and still traveling the world. So I am a genetic mixed bag. Sadly I have a 73 year old half sister on my father’s side in an alzheimers home. Five women in my family with AD.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #34

Sorry, I don’t know what this stands for? Alzheimer’s Disease? :cowboy_hat_face:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #35

Alzheimers disease.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #36

Let’s pray that they figure it out during our lifetime. In the meantime, I am pretty much sticking to keto. Controlled blood glucose makes sense.

(Jack Bennett) #37

You know what? If you don’t have a short attention span when you start, it’s OK. Usage gives you one. :fearful::fearful:

#38

What. Keto is pretty normal, just like OMAD, not for everyone, of course. Sorry if this topic is for the ones who feels keto is a drug or a problem or something… But I have some thoughts as usual and feel a tiny bit offended in place of keto :smiley:

I don’t know what exactly is intuitive eating, it’s probably complicated and people with fatlogic has some interesting idea about it too as far as I know but why would keto or OMAD go against it?
One can do OMAD or keto naturally or it may be super forced, these two are very different.

I don’t feel any euphoria on keto. Maybe on carnivore but just because I am so happy with my satiation sometimes :smiley: I can be happy with so many things. Oh, sunshine is my drug then! I like this. Exercise surely gives me more euphoria though it’s still a strong word. True euphoria, I don’t think I ever had that related to my woe and it sounds good, I had and have my healthy amount of joy so it’s all fine.
I have no problem with good drugs anyway, they have their role so I don’t care how many I have in my life as long as they are healthy enough (the way I use them) and enjoyable.

So, to me, it’s normal. Definitely not disordered eating. Forcing myself eating food I don’t want, don’t like, don’t need and mess me up, that would be disordered eating…
It easily can be DE for others, people are so different and many do IF and keto in a way that feels wrong. Maybe it’s just part of their journey, they don’t have a better option yet.
I do what is easy and tempting, sometimes I am curious and try out things. I struggle too but in a fun way or only if I simply have no way out and I need to wrestle with the actual problem until it gets solved.

I know people dislike my attitude as well. Sometimes I meet people who want to persuade me that being very hedonistic regarding food is a bad thing. I don’t get it and never will. It is a good thing for me, usually and if it isn’t, I still can’t help it, it’s what I am, very deeply. But it’s fine, I just go in a bad direction for a while, I am still improving in average. I mean my woe, I do this part of my life better than some other parts.

My old diet was significantly less than idea. I felt okay, by the way and enjoyed it pretty much. I ate HCHF and it probably was massive overeating for decades. My genetics kept me from quick weight gain but when I decided I want to lose my excess fat, I faced big challenges and had to make huge changes. Certain things couldn’t change, I still needed my somewhat big meals and lots of fat (I had to compromise but it’s still enjoyable enough and that makes things less effective but I have my priorities and I like challenges and consensus). I will manage and enjoy enough the process but the key that solves my woe related problems is simply a very low-carb diet that suits me. It’s my answer and savior and doesn’t look like an eating disorder at all. But I don’t care what it is, it’s my best option and it helps tremendously.

(Jennibc) #39

Yes, what is wrong with feeling ‘euphoric’ as long as it doesn’t drive some manic behavior? I am happier than I have ever been when eating this way and I am more productive, but not reckless.

Skipping breakfast when not hungry (which I do every day) would be considered ‘disordered’ in some camps. Cutting whole food groups out (like grain) would be considered ‘disordered’ by many. But who are they to decide what is disordered? When I cut grain 9 and half years ago my life long anxiety and ruminating disappeared. My son’s OCD went away when he cut it. Some of us cannot eat certain kinds of food because of what it does to us mentally and physically. Might be the microbiome, might be something else, it really doesn’t matter. What matters is that we are living better lives.

I’d much rather give up pancakes and cereal than rely on psychotropic drugs with their myriad of dangerous side effect including massive weight gain (I gained 120 pounds on SSRI’s over a few years!) It was keto that finally took the last of it off.

(Katie) #40

In the obesity code, I remember reading that if a mother has metabolic syndrome while pregnant, that she can in fact pass it onto her child, making him or her start their little life with metabolic syndrome. He attributes the childhood obesity epidemic to this partially, the other part like you mentioned, to highly processed foods that are so readily available to the younger generation. I think it goes without saying that in this way, diabetis can be “passed” from your parents, or at least the incredible disposition to become diabetic. Obviously the food you eat, whether metabolically deranged or not, is still your personal choice to make

(Katie) #41

DISCLAIMER: Please note that I am generalizing and just going by what I have witnessed and seen over the years. I am not an expert.

I do not think so, or at least not keto specifically. A lot of people with eating disorders pursue healthy diets as part of their disorder, keto and intermittent fasting being examples of that (also veganism, calorie-counting, etc.). No matter which diet they pursue, they would display/have unhealthy obsessions/behaviors with that diet (going too extreme past what is actually healthy). With that reasoning, perhaps for any way of eating someone with an eating disorder should be helped/monitored with their eating.

I do not think that keto causes disordered eating, I think that it attracts those who have disordered eating, just like other diets do.

(Justin Jordan) #42

Genetics load the gun, environment pulls the trigger.

I’ve got an uncle who’s obese - he’s carrying at least a hundred pounds of fat he doesn’t need. His diet is pure carbage. His blood sugar, and he’s almost seventy, is flawless. Some people just won’t get metabolic problems no matter what you pour down their throats.

My family and me are interesting example.

On my mother’s side, my grandfather and his mother were diabetic. But my mom and her sisters - no issues, regardless of diet. And indeed, none of maternal grandmother’s siblings have any metabolic issues (and have remained mostly robustly healthy into their eighties, so far).

On my father’s side, my father is a diabetic, and his father probably was (he died of a heart attack at 42, but my suspicion is he had metabolic issues).

Me? Well, I was raised by maternal grandparents and mother. So I ate the same stuff they did. Still ended up diabetic. I suspect that the double dose of diabetes on both sides of my family is why I did and my aunts haven’t.