But that’s the thing, it is your opinion and I never once have been defensive. I have in turn commented back to ava_ad0re in the way I saw fit as she was using capital lettering with exclamations behind it which obviously insinuate that she is “raising” her internet voice. Now who clearly would allow that? It’s rude and aggressive. it was evident that she thought that her opinion is the right answer as she clearly got annoyed with my simple response, which was me thanking her for comment and nicely telling her other info I found. I was completely polite in ever sense (you may want to reread the convo for clarification) Just because I did not tell her I thought she was right she was being rude to me. I never once said anything out of line and I think it’s terrible and unfortunate that there are people like you guys on here who act like this. It is very childish. Especially when the person with the opinion, chalks it up to me “ignoring” them. I have a right to making my informed decision while looking at various points of view, such as your own. This is a forum and within my specific post, there are many different types of opinions here and because I didn’t fully agree with one specifically (yours) does not mean for one second that I am being defensive. Ridiculously immature.
Is it okay to exceed protein & calories?
Too me it sounds like you are aggressive and think you know all. That’s the internet I guess… too bad.
I’m sorry you feel that way 
No, I don’t think I know everything.
But I do know that limiting calories reduces your BMR, as multiple people here have told you, multiple times. Yet here you are, with another topic, asking if it’s okay to increase calories, i’m guessing against your dietitians advice? I am so confused by you, and thus I said I can’t be arsed. I have no idea what answer you want to this question, but it’s obviously in line with your beliefs from all the ‘research’ you have done, probably on SAD websites aimed at CICO with CICO Calculators. Agaim, the Biggest Loser effect.
There’s a link for you, which is what I have been telling you, but hey don’t listen to us, we don’t know anything about Keto, and I didn’t lose 25kg by sheer luck and being a bloody idiot.
Good luck to you Cora.
@Cora007 Hi. Your OP asked whether it was OK for you to exceed your Carb Manager protein macro and total calories. You asked specifically about how ‘it works for different people’, referring to getting ‘kicked from ketosis if you exceed protein’. Several folks have responded to those specific questions with their experiences and opinions. That in turn has spawned a discussion about protein intake that probably, and understandably, might confuse you. This is a public forum and you can expect to get different strokes from different folks, even conflicting and contradictory strokes. If you think someone’s opinion is not worth 2 cents or their specific experience doesn’t apply, you are perfectly free to ignore.
You haven’t said yet how much increase in protein you’re asking about other than comment #7 where you mention 2 grams:
… I feel guilty if I literally just go over 2 g protein or 100 cals…
Let me assure you, in my ever so humble opinion, 2 grams of protein over your Carb Manager macro will not ‘kick you from ketosis’. 50 grams or 100 grams might. But that’s not a sure thing either as the experiences of many long-term folks on this forum can attest. If you are so inclined and have the test device to do so, you could determine this for yourself quite easily. But if you’re really talking about 10-15-20 grams of protein over the Carb Manager macro, don’t bother.
As for calories, it has been noted that 1300 calories is pretty low and, in my ever so humble opinion, it seems low. As pointed out by others, the danger is lowering your RMR/BMR by restricting calories too much. That generally is what happens to people on CICO diets and why they ultimately fail. On a keto dietary regimen you should not feel hungry and if you do, you should eat more (fat mostly) until you do not feel hungry. Chronic hunger is the warning that you are lowering your RMR/BMR. A lot of things happen to your body and your metabolism when you start to eat keto. You need to consume sufficient fuel to enable it to happen or it won’t.
You could try changing your Carb Manager to ‘Maintenance’ rather than ‘Weight Loss’. That should increase the calorie total for you if you don’t want to experiment.
That is true to a certain extent however your body will make glucose out of your own body parts a/k/a protein catabolism, so does it really matter if one over-eats protein? (maybe eat less protein and/or fast to tighten up loose flabby skin?)
Over-eating protein might prevent the body from eating itself?
Then the question becomes do you really want to be in full-blown ketosis constantly other than for other reasons?
I think the argument I’m presenting here is a much stronger counter argument?
Im not obese, well not anymore! I Dropped from 252lbs down to 210lbs earlier in the year and then stopped for summer and just ate sensibly…apart from a few holidays…and a lot of beer. During those 4 months off i only gained 5lbs or so. Now i’m “back on it” and looking to drop the final 30lbs to hit my target weight.
Just a steady 3/500 a day depending on what training day it is. Not a huge deficit. Saturdays i don’t have a deficit at all and i up my carbs from 20g to 40-50g, I stick to my BMR as i work till 4am Sunday morning so need that little bit extra to fuel a 20 hour day.
I do have the odd day where the deficit is a little higher as i’m just not hungry enough to force down food but I never fall below 1300kcal NET
As mentioned in my previous comment, i workout 5 days a week and 2 of those days will be double workouts (an AM and a PM gym session) The days i’m doing extra workouts I take in more protein to avoid losing lean muscle mass.
I seem to have found a routine that suits my body, i very rarely feel tired and I see a consistent drop on the scales every week. I keep a daily spread sheet of everything i eat, drink and every calorie i burn through exercise…theres even a log of how often i pee just to make sure i stay hydrated! It may sound a tad extreme but its super accurate in predicting how much i should weigh 2/3/4 weeks or even a month from now! I’ve kept this for a total of 10 months now and there’s only been a couple of occasions where its been wrong but that was down to having unexpected cheat days…Cinema nachos and cheese can sometimes be impossible to resist!
Many of us here have had the personal experience that eating at a maintenance level of calories while keeping carbs under 20 results in better weight loss than eating at a caloric deficit. And we don’t have to feel hungry, so win-win. But macro calculators use the same information as traditional dieticians, so really it is all the same source, not multiple sources.
As far as going over your chosen goal goes, it is also important to remember that those numbers are averages at best. There is no way to know the exact macros of that specific steak that you ate. So while tracking macros can be useful in retraining yourself about food, those numbers are guesses and it’s not worth the stress to take them too seriously.
To me this looks absolutely perfect. It’s very similar to the macros that I was following for two years and I was never hungry and experienced the opposite of metabolic slowdown (I was even lower on protein actually).
The whole point of a ketogenic diet is that by driving insulin lower one is opening up their fat stores as a source of energy. At nearly 1400 exogenous calories she is only meeting a few hundred from her fat stores. I’m sorry, but unless she’s already quite slim there is zero evidence that this will lead to metabolic slowdown on a ketogenic diet.
It’s the very basis of how Phinney explains how the diet works. I think telling newbies that this standard incarnation of the ketogenic diet is a starvation diet and that all the keto calculators and their keto dietitians are really just CICO and SAD is how to lose someone who is actually taking the diet seriously. Even worse, the mixed messages could confuse people enough to give up entirely.
She never said she was dying of hunger all the time. If she had then the “increase your calories” message would have been warrented. She just asked if going a bit over sometimes would mess up ketosis.
Anyhow, their are lots of women here who find they average sub 1400 calories daily while losing weight. As per Phinney’s graph they consume sub their maintenance needs in calories without hunger or ill effects as long as there is enough fat on their bodies to fuel the balance.
This is exactly how it worked for me. I ate sub 1400 calories for about a year and as I approached my goal weight my hunger began to increase and my consumed calories trended upwards. Zero metabolic slowdown and zero hunger ever.
@atomicspacebunny I think we agree 
but just to confirm…
Protein is an essential macronutrient (we need it to live and we can’t manufacture it internally on our own). Healthy levels of dietary protein follows something like a “U”-shaped curve … neither too much nor too little is ideal (and/or could be dangerous to our well-being).
As such, both under-eating protein and over-eating protein are possibilities, neither of which are advisable.
So, to recap … do we agree? 
I think that is a fair assessment!
Personally I”m a protein under-eater (30 grams) just in case Dr. Rosedale is right…lol
I want to train my “nutrient receptors/sensors” to burn fat (fattier cuts of meat/tallow-suet/plant fats/marine fats) not protein (glucose/leaner cuts of meat), might as well eat lots of carbohydrates?
I fail to deconstruct his argument?
Thank you so much for your words. I have a better understanding. I am not a difficult person and am open to all kinds of different advice as I created this post. I’m not sure what happen with Ava and myself, it is just a bit ridiculous in my opinion. I can most definitely take criticism or consider people’s opinion, I need it to help understand how to be successful with this but when I have many people telling me that my macros are fine for weight loss and I currently am losing quite a bit of weight than it’s working for me. I unfortunately only wanted to know if it was okay at times to exceed protein and calories from time to time if need be. I didn’t think it would lead to negativity. Again though, thank you!
@Ruina Extremely well put. 
@Ilana_Rose I’m with your larger point for sure - with the non-controversial qualification that we’re all different.
My n=1: I spent most of first 2 months in keto eating about 1400 kcal/day, given that it seemed to be roughly where my (dazed) hunger signals led me, continuing my long-standing (pre-keto) habit of 1.5 meals/day in 18/6 window.
But I grew concerned I might be slowing down my metabolism (my amazingly ramped up energy level began to feel less intense). So, I intentionally “upped” my saturated fats to reach closer to 2000/day.
Ever since, my energy, concentration, and overall sense of well-being spiked further - even as my weight and waistline continued to decline. Not a goal, just an interesting observation.
Placebo effect? Quite possible.
But at least for me, eating closer to 2000 kcal/day seems to work better than 1400 kcal/day. And it took a matter of weeks to reach that point where it seems 1400 just wasn’t quite enough.
But to be clear, I didn’t have great amounts of surplus body fat to begin with. Yeah, perhaps I’d grown a little pudgy for my frame, but keto for me was never really about weight loss. It was about feeling better (by reducing systemic inflammation I didn’t realize I had built up over the years of eating faux “healthy” low fat diet - thanks to American Medical/Pharma complex).
[BTW, my current BMI is around 20, with 31" waist @ 140 lbs, 5’9" @ 62 yrs old. Physically active and feel amazing … so some of this n=1 profile “feeds” into the mix.]
Again, directionally, I agree with you. But timing is everything, and it likely differs for each of us based on too many moving variables to ever peg down.
Thanks so much for your advice which makes sense to me. I am still learning and trying my best here to succeed. I’m still losing but when I get to a point where I’ll stall, I’ll change it up a bit but for now it’s working. I’ve been doing a mainly strict keto straight for almost five weeks now and feel I’m losing quite a bit. I need to learn as I go to better increase my success. Thank you again!
I’m going to assume from your name that you are male. You are also 5’9, and weren’t particularly fat. I’d have been likely telling you to up your calories too as would a keto dietitian. 2000 calories is still a weight loss deficit for most men.
There are loads of threads where I encourage people who are eating insanely low amounts of food to increase there calories. But 1400 calories for most women with excess fat is going to be fine. 1400 calories for you is an extreme deficit but 1400 calories for me was very satiating eating on keto. It’s likely the same for Cora.
Ilana is quite small, so her caloric need is less than most of us here. She is an excellent example of finding what works for you, as we say, n=1. Cronometer tells me to eat about 1238 calories. But I lose weight and feel better at about (I stress “about” because it is just a dang number and our bodies are not machines, they are much more complex) 1800. Thats a significant difference.
So, What I am saying is… When people here lecture you about too few calories, I want you to understand where they are coming from. They followed the advice to cut calories, Calories In Calories Out, CICO, for their whole lives and gained weight anyway. Or lost weight but were miserable. And then every week someone comes here complaining that they are doing everything right, including being super strict on calories, and aren’t losing. I totally get that this is not what you were saying. And that the people who do complain about that are not fools, and don’t deserve to be treated with contempt. But it is hard. It is hard to see people make the same mistakes. “My doctor said” and “my nutritionist says” the same thing that got our generation overweight and diabetic in the first place.
And when you increase calories and then lose weight and\or otherwise improve your health, it seems so clear. CICO is not the whole story.
And when people say 1300 or so calories is a starvation diet, they are refering to a 1600 calorie diet for strong young men who probably needed about 3000 caloies to maintain weight. The term derives from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment. Here is an interesting rundown of the study. I don’t think many people would argue that calorie deficit works in the short run. It just doesn’t work in the long run, as western society has proven.
So when people tell you to eat more, even though you weren’t asking about that, this is where they are coming from. Hoping you won’t run over the same cliff they did for so long. But maybe you are as small as Ilana and don’t need as much as many of us do. You didn’t say. And we shouldn’t assume.
Yes, the bloodwork is in… I am a male.
And thanks for the thoughtfully crafted extension of this discussion.
I think the only person who can answer this is you.
There are people who answer both yes and no to this and they are all saying what they have seen. There is so much variation among different people. And there is so much variation in our day to day lives. Myself, there are times when I’m feeling great and fat melts away whether I am fasting or feasting and other times when I’m stressed and sleeping poorly and nothing seems to work, not even fasting which then aggravates my stress and poor sleep too much to sustain a fast long enough to have a noticeable impact.
I strongly feel the phrase “get kicked out of ketosis” is highly misleading. My personal experience measuring blood and breath ketones for 3 years is once one is fat adapted and regularly eating keto ketosis may wax and wane but it never shuts off hard and stays off. I suppose going completely off diet and binging for days would do this, but not merely exceeding ones macros by 50 or even 100% for a meal or two or three. Many times I’ve had a day where I’ve grossly exceeded, like 200%, my typical amounts of any or all macro nutrients and after a few hours my ketones will drop low, sometimes below the threshhold of 0.5 mmol/l considered “nutritional ketosis” but they don’t go to zero. And within a day or so of typical eating my numbers also return to their typical range. Often I find a feast day spontaneously leads to an effortless start of a fast with ketones quickly rebounding high after a deep dip.
I think that yes, it is okay to exceed the protein and calories; because personally I do this and it seems fine =). I would just personally advise that when you do this; to try and still keep your carbs at 20 grams or less. This is what I do when I do exceed. I don’t worry if the proteins, fats and calories are over, but I still keep my carbs at 20 grams or less =).
What I love about n=1. People can spend hours debating the science on issues like this and still not come to a consensus. To find out for yourself you can simply increase your protein intake a little each week until you stop losing weight and are no longer consistently in ketosis. Voila, you have discovered your limit. Of course it will probably need to be tweaked as your weight changes, but it’s easy and repeatable.