Hi all and thanks for your thoughts. I have about 100 pounds to lose, and have found keto very effective. No problem getting into heavy ketosis, testing using strips, and recently, a blood meter. My approach is a little unique. I am using a high quality liquid protein (Orgain 20g plant based protein (complete, and very low carb), 3 times a day for 60g total), lots of water throughout the day, and with the following supplementation: Dr. Joel Wallach’s Youngevity products with 90 vitamins and minerals (I mix these into the chocolate protein shakes), high quality essential fatty acid supplementation that includes omega-3, a much smaller amount of omega-6, and a small amount of omega-9, and then some additional electrolyte supplementation to bring the levels of sodium, calcium, potassium, chloride, phosphate, and magnesium to “standard” levels when considering what is already in the other items. I feel energetic and mentally clear and the pounds are dropping, while lean body mass is stable. Everything I read about ketogenic diets always emphasizes fat intake, but I am ingesting none other than the essential fatty acid supplementation. Is there anything fundamentally wrong or dangerous with this approach? Seems to me that I have plenty of body fat to burn, rather than eating more for energy, other than using the EFA supplementation. What’s wrong with this picture, and why is fat consumption typically considered such an important part of a ketogenic diet used for weight loss, especially when the only fats we really need are the EFAs, and I am consuming those? In searching, I have not really found anything that addresses this scenario specifically. Your insights and experience and expertise in addressing this question would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Is fat consumption really necessary on keto other than essential fatty acids?
Why are you consuming supplements instead of whole and traditionally processed foods?
Is it because supplements will let you formulate an extreme PSMF diet (which is what you are trying to do)?
Also, Youngevity is a pyramid scheme really.
And yes, fat consumption is required for optimal energy once you’ve lost 40 or 50 of your 100 pounds.
Getting into the habit of eating fat now will make the diet sustainable forever (since keto is a diet that only works as long as you are on it), though it may slow down fat loss.
Here’s my 2 cents.
What you’re doing is a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF). This is not even remotely ketogenic. It’s probably not healthy but it will burn down body fat pretty quick. The protein source is very low quality, but it’ll preserve lean mass as intended. One consideration is that liquid diets were responsible for the majority of doctor prescribed and supervised weight loss fatalities back in the 80’s when they were popular. There were a lot. They were doing something similar to what you’re doing in terms of calories and highly processed liquid shakes. Heart failure was the leading cause of death. Still though, the risks are only a few %, so you’ll probably be fine assuming no contraindicating conditions exist.
The larger issue that you will face is that your resting metabolic rate is going to drop precipitously in response. This will prime you to regain the weight when you’re finished. Within a week or so, you’re going to find yourself feeling a little rundown. Your energy levels will continue to diminish. By week two, you’ll notice that you’re starting to feel cold, and will turn the heat up. Next you’ll add an extra blanket when you’re sleeping. The real damage though is what’s happening hormonally. You’re waking a metabolic beast trained by 2 billion years of evolution to preserve bodyfat at all costs. Every system of your body is going to start fighting against the fat loss. Source: I’ve done a PSMF for 4 months, (albeit with better nutrition). You couldn’t pay me to do one again, not because it was hard (it wasn’t) but because it messed with my head, and I also regained every single pound within 8 months.
Unfortunately, the effects won’t strictly be physiological, they will also be psychological. Both the pysiological and psychological symptoms will persist long after you have ceased this experiment. How long they persist will be a function of it’s duration, and your own genetics.
These persistent physiological l and psychological effects are overwhelmingly powerful, and they will almost inevitably cause you to regain 100% of the weight that you’ve just lost. There is a very small chance that you won’t regain the weight within 2 years, and it will largely be winning the genetic lottery that will allow you to keep it off. A good indicator that you’re a winning ticket holder is that you’ve been quite thin for most of your adult life.
The cherry on top is that after you’ve recovered metabolically, these adaptations will be largely be dormant. However, every subsequent attempt at fat loss you attempt will awaken them almost immediately, and thwart even future, better designed fat loss attempts.
Other than that, it sounds pretty good.
High priced, highly processed, highly profitable protein is not the same as high quality.
All of this is completely unnecessary.
Not a bad idea, but some homemade “ketoade” with a bit of himalyan sea salt and magnesium citrate costs about one penny per serving and will do the same thing.
We need fat for our brains and hormones to run correctly. It’s true many go completely overboard with their fat intakes and are just shy of forcing fat in where it doesn’t belong just for the sake of eating fat but that doesn’t mean we don’t need it either. We’ll also disagree on the quality of a plant based protein, they’re never as good as their counterparts. Add in that your fat is low, your on more supplements than food and your protein source is sub-optimal, I see stuff going to hell for you in the future. Are you working out or doing any strength training to minimize muscle loss (or gain)? An actual PSMF would be better and while I don’t doubt the weight is coming off right now how are you measuring weight loss vs muscle loss?
Those are the only fats we need… to not die! We can do a lot of things that aren’t optimal for our bodies and live a very long time, but how good will we live? I’m not familiar with the Youngevity thing, but as somewhat of a biohacker and anti-aging guy most of that site looked like overpriced sales gimmicks. There’s a lot you can do to optimize and de-age, but it ain’t there!
Unless your a humming bird and how rapidly you burn sugar?
…they eat fish too, bugs and seeds? (must be releasing stored glycogen in adipose tissue or going for gluconeogensis?)
If humans were like humming birds and could burn fructose and sucrose evenly:
In reality one donut is all you really need for the entire day to maintain weight, but if you could put all essential nutrients into that one donut, you would never have to worry about being fat again. If you move more then two donuts to make up for energy expenditure lost.
Metabolism likes to burn body fat, dietary fat, sugar and your own body parts to make sugar or ketones for fuel?
The body resorts to turning its own parts into sugar constantly.
Only question is, where do find these donuts with all essential nutrients and would we be disciplined to eat only one or two a day?
…lol
My post wasn’t very helpful, because I never really said anything about a better option. I assume you are vegan or vegetarian and your goal is fat loss, if that’s not the case, let us know, because there are much better options. Assuming you’re vegan:
If you need to lose less than 25lbs, your best bet is a protein sparing alternate day fast. Basically, find a high quality protein source that your diet will allow, and do exactly what you’re proposing every other day. Day 1 will be eating to your regular food to satiety. Day 2 will be eating just 60g protein. Alternate Day 1 with Day 2 until you hit your goal or you get sick of it.
One thing to bear in mind though, is that if you are losing more than 25lbs or so, the “lean mass” you are proposing will to a large extent be loose skin. This will won’t look particularly good draping off your newly lean body. Google “loose skin pictures” to see what I’m talking about.
If you need to lose 25lbs or above, you’re best bet is alternate day fasting. Basically, Day 1 will be eating your normal food to satiety, and Day 2 will be eating nothing but water and tea. This will take care of your loose skin problem and preserve your metabolism. There is heaps of research around it. Read Dr. Fung’s “The Obesity Code” for a summary of the scientific research to date, why this works, and an overview of superior options.
I wish you the very best of luck. Weight loss is something that are lot of us here have been struggling with for decades. I hope you find something that works for you.
If you’re really obese, and a great majority of people considering a PSMF are, the odds of having metabolic syndrome are quite high. Daily calorie restriction for months while on a moderate carb, moderate fat, moderate protein diet will still work for them, but oddly 80% of them regain that fat within 2 years. Nobody really knows why!
I’ve tried that. Lost 70lbs in 6 months on a high carb diet, and regained it within 12 months. I’ve tried PSMF, lost 30lbs in 4 months, and regained it by the end of the year. I lost 45lbs in 4 months doing intermittent fasting with keto, lost 45lbs, and 80% of the fat stayed off despite 6 months of ad libitum eating. I’ve read the science, but I still don’t entirely understand why that worked. All I really know is that it’s only thing I’ve ever tried that did. 
I can do that too but for some reason but try explaining that in scientific terms is mind boggling at best.