Interesting fasting BG numbers

(Todd Chester) #1

Hi All,

I do a complete fast every Wednesday. Water and salt. Some herbal allergy pills. It starts at Tuesday before I go to bed and end Thursday when I wake up. I measure my blood glucose (BG) Wednesday morning and Thursday morning.

Initially, my blood glucose would drop between 75 and 85 mg/dL come Thursday morning. But it slowly creeped up over time. Now it has gotten really interesting and I think it indicate a good thing:

two weeks ago:
start: 114 mg/dL
end: 107

one week ago:
start: 103
end: 104

start: 106
end: 116

It is actually going up, instead of down! I am thinking that this

  1. is a sign that my body is getting far more efficient at burning fat, and
  2. my liver if finally kicking in to stabilize my BG, creating glycogen from fat on demand.

Your thoughts?

(Jane) #2

How long have you been eating a ketogenic diet? Were you T2D before starting?

(Todd Chester) #3

Diagnosed 8 years ago with 398 mg/dL. Keto ever since then, though I did not know it was called keto for about three months. I have been fasting for about a year now. I am also completely drug free for about 7-3/4 years. My largest drop in BG was quitting metformin (rebound effect). Second largest for Vanadyl sulfate.

I don’t believe I was ever stupid enough to have taken metformin. I had to apologize to a lot of people after I got off it and the “dark curtain” lifted. (Met turn you into an ass hole.)

(Bob M) #4

398 mg/dL? Wow.

It’s impressive to see you where you are today.

I can’t figure out what’s happening, although I wonder how good your blood sugar tests are. They are only valid plus or minus 15 %.

If you have fasting for a year, has it been a 32+ hour fast/week? If so, were the original values lower, and the new values higher?

I do think that indicates possibly a large adaptation to using ketones and glucose.

When I started, also 8 years ago, I didn’t measure for a while. I also did not fast for about 1.5 years. When I started fasting 4.5+ days, my blood sugar would go into the low 60s or probably below (didn’t wear a CGM back then) and my ketones were high at the same time.

Fast forward to today, and I can fast 4.5 days, and get 20+ points higher blood sugar and much lower ketones.

(Todd Chester) #5

My meter is one of the more accurate ones. But more important than the accuracy is its repeatability. I get the same number over and over. (My wife is in the constant 80’s and 90’s.)

Fast 4.5 days? Wow!

What I noticed when I started fating was all the energy I had when I was fasting and how much extra work I could get done without stopping to eat and the lethargy afterwards. I am working to try and rid myself of gut too. Oh, and I can’t keep a scar for more than a few months.

And I can taste my food now, which brings up the problem of eating too much because it tastes good.

In engineering terms, blood glucose is suppose to be a “closed loop control system”, like the cruise control on your car. The control system is suppose to keep your GB relatively flat. I think that is what is happening. And it is a good thing.


If we got those results from a typical laboratory analyzer they would be seen as minimal variation. Glycogenolysis is the liver breaking down glycogen to glucose. Gluconeogenesis is the body making glucose from noncarb sources.

(Jane) #7

My Dad still takes Metformin and I chalked up his occasionally being as ass to old age (he is 87) but now I may have to cut him even more slack because of his meds. Oy.

(Todd Chester) #8

Metformin is nasty. Memory loss. Loss of cognition. Hair loss. Skin spots. Depression manifested by delusions of paranoia. Of ya, EVERYONE WAS PICKING ON ME! I had to apologize to a lot of people, especially my wife. She floated on air for two weeks. “I told you I was ot picking on you!”

Why the *&#@ is your dad not on Keto ???

(Todd Chester) #9

I am going to have to write that word down!

(Jane) #10

He has all those symptoms. My Dad is not on keto because he thinks his daughter is nuts and his doctor is a God.

I tried for 2 years and this is a man who did low carb Atkins with me when I was in high school in the 70’s. But he’s forgotten that.

When his doctor asked him to limit his carbs to “under 100” he was all in. Not keto and he is still programmed to eat low fat, but better than a SAD diet. It helped and his health improved.

(Todd Chester) #11

Addiction is an ugly thing. SAD is harder to kick than cigarettes, And you are not crazy. You just love your dad.

(Todd Chester) #12

Hi Janie,

This aught to get his attention big time, unless he wants to go senile:

Alzheimer’s Disease Is Type 3 Diabetes–Evidence Reviewed

We conclude that the term “type 3 diabetes” accurately reflects the fact that AD [Alzheimer’s disease] represents a form of diabetes that selectively involves the brain and has molecular and biochemical features that overlap with both type 1 diabetes mellitus and T2DM.


(Eric) #13

Similar with my mom. She hears my results and wants to address some of her health concerns but cannot embrace the idea that she would have to drop so many food items. She trusts a nutritionist more who has her doing “low carb” with 130 net carbs and limited to 1300 calories. I keep trying to get her to see the wisdom of Keto but she can’t accept that eating that much fat and missing those carbs and more calories will get her to her goal, despite my results so far.

(Todd Chester) #14

Hi Eric,

Wow! 130 grams. Well the USDA carb calculator say I should eat 400 gram a day. This is simple palm waxing (corruption). The USDA food pyramid is total for sale corruption. And I bet her nutritionist allows for fiber subtraction from her carb count too.

Here is the thing. Ask her if she were to take her car to the mechanic and he NOT fix what she complained about repeatably, would she still go back to him? Ask her how is that nutritionist working for her? Why is she still going back? She is clearly addicted and the advice she is getting amounts to “those DT’s [Delirium Tremens] are terrible. I think you should have a beer.”

As far as the “restrictions” goes. Keep a chart of what she is actually eating. If it is anything like my experience, she is eating a very, very narrow list of things. I wondered what I could eat when I started too (started with steaks). I now eat possibly two to four times the variety I have EVER eaten in my life. You just have to learn how to cook keto (prepared keto/paleo/primal in the store is usually false advertising.) If she already does home cooking, she is half way there. How many way can you cook an egg!?!?!

She need to get with a natropath or someone that understand Keto so that she is explained what will happen to her when she goes through withdrawal (she will need a lot of pink salt when she pisses off 10 lbs of inflammation water weight) and how to cope with the creepy crawlies all over her skin during the process. And the mental issues. I though I was going the starve to death, even though I was surrounded with tons of food I could eat.

Also, after the addiction vanished and you learn to cook keto, your sense of taste returns and a whole new world opens up for you. I never realized black pepper has nuances!

Also, if she would actually watch this, here is the corruption where her nutritionist is coming from:

Today I found out: Who Invented the Food Pyramid and Why You’d Be Crazy to Follow It

Ya, follow the money. Big ag waxes big gov’s waxes big pharma waxes big gov waxes big med waxes waxes big gov waxes big ag … Everyone makes out like a mint, except the public that really gets screwed.

One of the biggest sadness’ of growing old has been the realization of how much corruption goes on in these institutions. Luckily not all of them. The Emergency Room allopath that diagnosed me with T2 put me on keto (though I did not know it was called keto at the time), He really knew his stuff. When it comes to diabetes, most allopaths and nutritionists are idiots out to make a buck off you committing suicide on the installment plan. Fortunately, NOT ALL OF THEM.

(KCKO, KCFO) #15

All the things I never want to experience. I came close to prediabetic, but going keto stopped that. I had not heard those side effects of metformin, good to know, my DH is T2D, and is so far staying off all meds with diet and exercise changes. He walks after all the meals, some yoga if too cold out, and eats low carb, somedays it is keto amounts, others still much lower than in the past.

(Todd Chester) #16

Hi Collaroygal,

Good news on catching the T2 before any vascular damage had occurred!

Be careful with exercise. Don’t do anything that will trick your liver into thinking you are running for your life. Your liver will pump all kinds of sugars into your system so you can run real fast. Boring (exercise bike) tricks mine into danger.

Upper body is great. Swinging an axe, gardening, hiking in the forest are all great for me. My ALL TIME FAVORITE is fly fishing!!!

Taking a walk with your wife and/or dog is wonderful. Wives: you get him all to yourself and he listens better on a walk.

Running, jogging, sprinting: oh no!! 165 mg/dL here we come!

You can always take your wife fly fishing. Mine sweet voice attracts trout. She can smell trout in the water too. Very handiy to have along! (No, she is not for rent!)


(KCKO, KCFO) #17

I walk with DH at least twice a day, but the walks are short, no longer than 30 mins. he does 3x a day. So far so good. He doesn’t fish so that is out. We both do gardening but he does the majority of it, my sinus issues kick in if I do too much in the garden, so many things out there to set them off.

I do a couple of hour long classes at the fitness center, strength training and Zumba dancing classes. No real danger either of us will over do it, we are just tooooo laaazzzzyyyy for that.

(Bob M) #18

Also, the type of exercise has bearing on our responses. I tend to get higher blood sugar with exercise (though nowhere near 165), but I do body weight training to failure or HIIT. Supposedly, if you do lower intensity exercise (possibly longer duration, too), that will lower blood sugar level. I can’t confirm that.

(Todd Chester) #19

My experience is that they do.

Basically what I have found is that the exercise has to be something enjoyable. Riding an exercise bike, being bored out of my mind and thinking I’ve died and gone to hell, was counter produtive (fight or flight kicks in). Then again, telling me there are trout over that hill, put a fishing rod in my hand, and I will crawl on my belly to get to them.

So basically as it has been said, the best exercise it the one you will actually do. So the one that is enjoyable pops right to the top. And doing them with your tribe – direct family, those family members you find (friends, dogs) – is even better.

(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #20

I’m the same way. Running two miles on a track just kills me, but walking nonstop the 14.5 miles from one tip of Manhattan to the other suits me fine.