I'm out

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #54

Sorry, just seeing this. How is it now?

(Brian) #55

Browned butter helps. :smiley: Just had some Brussels sprouts covered in browned butter for supper. Mmm, mmm, mmm!! That was some good eats!

#56

@amber The restless legs seem to come and go. I’ve been eating canned oysters and clams a couple times a week and haven’t had restless legs during that time. I don’t know if there’s a connection or if it’s coincidental. Any suggestions or thoughts?

(Keto in Katy) #57

I have been moving a little closer to carnivory myself just because I notice that I feel my best after eating mostly meat and fat for a couple days. Veggies are a little less appealing to me now but I still eat some.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #58

Keep eating them?

You mentioned you suspect potassium. Have you tried supplementing it?

#59

@amber Hi, Amber. I supplement potassium on and off, but was consistent with it the last five or so days because of the insomnia and crazy legs. Didn’t seem to help.

(Sondra Rose) #60

Magnesium deficiency seems to be the culprit for some, though not all. Suggest Magnesium Citrate capsules or Magnesium Glycinate. 200-600 mg before bed.

#61

I’ve taken Natural Calm for quite a while and it’s generally good at helping me sleep, so there’s something else going on. I’ve got a theory it might be that I’ve been eating to much protein. For several weeks I’very been eating higher protein. Also I’ve been eating my last meal later in the day. I’m going back to moderate protein and making sure not to eat after 3 pm. When I was doing that I slept like a baby.

(VLC.MD) #62

What are the typical macros for a ZC approach ?

(Chris) #63

Don’t know anyone that tracks them. Eat meat until satisfied and drink water.

(VLC.MD) #64

No eggs ?

(Chris) #65

Eggs are fine as a side sometimes, but I don’t eat them all the time. Eggs from happy chickens are best.

(VLC.MD) #66

Beef macros

beef
macros.for.beef.cuts.cow.ground.beef.jpg3200×2177 1.27 MB

(VLC.MD) #67

Wow. Why is this hard ? (Note: I can calculate manually).
I’d like a chart or some source of meats and their macro %s (which usually is % calories).

Any source ?

EDIT:

F,P,C %

Beef, ground, 90% lean meat / 10% fat, crumbles, cooked, pan-browned [hamburger, ground sirloin]
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/6196/2
47/53/0%

Beef, ground, 85% lean meat / 15% fat, crumbles, cooked, pan-browned [hamburger, ground round]
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/6201/2
54/46/0%

Beef, ground, 80% lean meat / 20% fat, crumbles, cooked, pan-browned [hamburger, ground chuck]
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/6206/2
58/42/0%

Beef, ground, 70% lean meat / 30% fat, crumbles, cooked, pan-browned
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/8000/2
60/40/0%

Ground beef by the numbers (with hand calculated Macros by me)

Per 100 grams (3.5 ounces), broiled

Extra-lean ground beef
Calories: 203
Protein: 30 g (60%)
Fat: 9 g (40%)

Lean ground beef
Calories: 250
Protein: 26 g (45%)
Fat: 15 g (55%)

Medium ground beef
Calories: 270
Protein: 26 g (40%)
Fat: 18 g (60%)

Regular ground beef
Calories: 304
Protein: 25 g (35%)
Fat: 22 g (65%)

McDonalds weights:

1 McDonalds hamburger (meat only) is 33g.
1 beef patty at McDonald’s has a weight of 1.8 ounces

These weights are approximate:
the uncooked weight of our hamburger patties is at least 44g.
After cooking, they weigh 30g.

Quarter Pounder patties are at least 113g uncooked and 78g cooked.

Angus Third Pounder patties are at least 151g uncooked and 111g cooked.

So, let’s say beef has around a Macro of Fat/Protein/Carb of 50/50/0.

Do people need to add fat to that to get the fat/protein ratio more keto-friendly ?

(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #68

You don’t ever have to add fat to make something keto-friendly, you only have to remove carbs and protein. You can get into ketosis on a zero-fat diet as long as your carbs are really low and you don’t eat too much protein. In fact I know there are some weight loss clinics that use such a 80-90% protein, low calorie ketogenic diet for rapid fat loss with maximum lean body mass retention.

Adding fat would make something more ketogenic only in the sense that it can be a helpful tool in replacing protein (and carbs), but it’s not at all necessary for ketosis. In fact, as I think you know, fasting is the ultimate ketogenic diet, and it has zero fat.

(Ken) #69

Let’s review some Evolution. Mankind was clearly evolving towards Obligate Carnivory as a a species right up until the Younger Dryas. As a hunter-gatherer there was almost always some intake of plant based foods, but it was usually seasonal, especially in temperate zones such as Europe, etc. Mankind is fairly adapted to eat most dicots, with a few exceptions. It’s the monocots, legumes, curciferous, nightshades, etc where the arguments of limited adaptations can be made, manifested on a limited basis according to individual genetics. ZC was clearly a major part of nutrition, as pemmican was the common method for storing meat and fat. This does not mean Mankind lost it’s adaptation to eat plant based foods. So, this “plant scare” is waaay overblown, unless you have a specific detrimental reaction due to your individual genetics. Sweeping generalizations border on nuttiness.

I eat ZC quite often, I’m very comfortable with it, but I always insure 60% of calories comes from fat. I also insure I’m getting vitamins and minerals, either from organs or supplements. I suspect it’s these two issues cause people problems with ZC, with not enough fat, not enough micro nutrients, or a combination of both. Higher protein can certainly cause problems. Whenever I do desire to eat veggies, or for that matter fruits, I eat them. There’s nothing wrong with it, they are not typically discordant, (unless identified as so on an individual basis) and are natural within Mankind’s evolutionary development.

The real issue is lipolytic nutrition being Mankind’s natural state, instead of merely ketogenic.

(VLC.MD) #70

I like it.

I’ll say that fasting is mankind’s natural state as breakfast was invented by capitalists.
Cavemen fasted over 12 hours a day guaranteed.

(Ken) #71

It depends.

Not if they had plenty of pemmican, made from running that herd of Mammoths off the cliff last Fall…

(Chris) #72

I’m still bothered that this is about protein in a vacuum. Especially in a ZC thread. Eat more fat, the ratio should never make it to 50/50 fat / protein, this is playing with fire. Even bear ate 80 / 20. Granted, perhaps the cuts we get today are less fatty, unless you’re eating ribeye all day or something else well marbled. Fat would need to be supplemented. Not hard. Heavy cream is great, butter if you like it, bacon fat, tallow.

(Ken) #73

Depending of the policies of your local grocery store, like mine, they’ll sell fat trim by the pound. I just roast extra along with the meat. Usually around 12 minutes for the fat. Mmmm, lightly seasoned it’s very tasty.