gabe
(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” )
#125
Attia notes that there’s a large swathe of the keto community that simply ignores LDL no matter how high it goes. I believe he referred to this as “insane.”
You cannot simply call LDL irrelevant no matter how high it goes just because it’s the main biomarker that keto seems to negatively impact. I’d suggest that, for much of the population, they could probably go to a 50% fat diet with the rest of their carbs coming from low GI foods, and they’d be fine. 50% is “high fat” compared to SAD. Certainly if my LDL was sky high I’d first swap out saturates for monounsaturates, and if it didn’t improve I’d reduce my fat intake (HERESY!)
For me personally, “eating fat to satiety” is meaning-less because my signaling is not working, perhaps the reason for that is partly genetic (69% pacific islander here) or it may have something to do with my early child-hood where I suffered severe malnutrition. So for me, eating fat in an “uncontrolled” manner i.e. eating over 100% of my fat macro, is causing me to put on weight. The thing is I wasn’t hungry when I was eating 203% of my fat macro and I’m also not hungry when I eat fat at 100%. All this app does is help me get an estimate of what my fat intake is, if I go slightly over because of what I eat I don’t panic, it still works.
For people new to Keto, I do believe in telling them to “eat fat to satiety” because if they’re not damaged it most likely will work and they will naturally stop once their bodies tell them its satiated.
Just yesterday I picked up another handy hint from @ava_ad0re regarding over consumption of carbs and water retention to store glycogen. I haven’t read the science on this but perhaps someone can elaborate more on this?
ava_ad0re
(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja )
#128
Basically, we cannot store glycogen without storing water. When we deplete those glycogen stores, our fat cells also drop the water. I think it’s 2-3ml of water per gram of glyogen, but I could be wrong, I haven’t read the numbers in awhile.
Thanks for posting that Katie, its an interesting article. If he’s right this confirms a lot of what has been happening to me. This phenomena of water replacing the fat we’ve depleted is intriguing, so we can actually lose weight but because the body retains water in the empty fat cells we don’t see the effects of the weight-loss until the body decides to shed the water. I’ll have to read up more on that study, the “Minnesota Starvation Experiment”. Oh oh Ancel Keys was the lead investigator of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment.
ava_ad0re
(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja )
#130
Its the exact reason why weight loss is not linear, we can’t tell when the body is going to release the water. It might be in a week from now. Though you can usually tell when you feel squishy, or are peeing alot, that you are about to have a whoosh. Interesting phenomenon
Minnesota Starvation Experiment was published in 1950 in a two-volume, 1,385-page text entitled The Biology of Human Starvation (University of Minnesota Press). I don’t think I’ll be reading that any time soon!
Terence,
Remember a few months ago when the fruit debate happened? The added glucose from the fruit that was being metabolized and inflating the fat cells along with the water was ( I believe) the basis of the other side of the debate. It maybe wasn’t being explained very well. Anyways Katie is right and the less glucose we consume the less water we have to store to hold that glucose and the less fat cells the body keeps holding on too.
The more I learn about the body the more amazing it becomes.
Yeah this is a first for me, I had no idea there was such a thing as our fat cells storing water in the space left by burned fat. So does that mean if we really keep our carbs down to less than 20g will that mean we won’t store water so much due to the lack of glucogen being produced? Or will we still need to wait for the body to shed?
You don’t really want to know, it was embarrassing, I even apologized to all non-fruit eaters in the entire bloody world! But that’s when I was new to Keto so I have an excuse.
Yes as the body doesn’t require the water to store it in. The cells will shrivel up from being empty and not being used. This is one of the reasons people do EF’s as this stimulates Autophagy (A normal physiological process in the body that deals with destruction of cells in the body. It maintains homeostasis or normal functioning by protein degradation and turnover of the destroyed cell organelles for new cell formation.) to replace those old dilapidated cells with good new ones.
gabe
(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” )
#140
Per Peter Attia:
LDL-P (or apoB) is the best predictor of adverse cardiac events, which has been documented repeatedly in every major cardiovascular risk study.
@gabe My LDL-P is insanely high - 2603 as of February 2018. I would love to get @ketodave to weigh in. Dave, thoughts on LDL P, do you agree with Peter Attia?
I also have the gene mutation that biases toward a higher LDL.
This is a very good explanation on on LDL’s and Cholesterol in general. Just scroll down to the LDL section and how Keto plays a roll if that’s all your interested in.
The author says that the scientists in the study found a trigger to the release of the water by
‘providing a single meal that included a dramatic increase in caloric intake. For instance, a 2,300-calorie meal was served to celebrate the half-way mark of the experiment, and researchers noted that many of the men woke up several times to pee that night and, in the morning, were several pounds lighter than the day before.’
I’ve said in a previous post that I use a similar technique to shift stalls by eating a large piece of commercial cheese cake. I picked that up from JC when I had stalls from past diets, so it does look like it was based on some science after all.
