I'm Diabetic

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #41

I’m sorry for you folks who don’t have an off switch. I find that, in my case, there is a natural limit to how much fat I want. And on those occasions when I do eat a bit past the point of satiety, I don’t get fatter, I pay for it by sweating out the extra energy in my sleep. After a few nights of waking in a soggy bed, I started to be more careful. Also, I figure I was getting about 375 g (1500 cal) of carbohydrate in my high-carb diet, and I only need 167 g of fat to replace all that energy.

You wouldn’t need to limit calories on a ketogenic diet even if you did have excess fat to shed. I never worried about calories or exercise and lost 80 lbs./36 kg automatically. I did find that my appetite dropped noticeably during my third or fourth week on keto, so I suppose my body was limiting my intake, but I was certainly not restricting calories on purpose.

If you’d like my opinion, it would be to give yourself six months of eating to satiety on a well-formulated ketogenic diet, and see what happens. If you don’t like the results, then you could start tweaking. Note that the term is “eating to satiety,” which means “to satisfy your hunger,” not “to choke down food until your stomach is literally about to burst.” If you are like the people here who don’t have an off switch, you’ll discover that fairly quickly and can deal with that. But you could equally well be like those of us whose appetite hormones work as designed, and counting calories would be a non-issue. You’ll just have to discover what works best for you.

#42

I’ve noticed most commercial dressings do use soybean oil so that’s out.

I thought a healthy amount of meat fats is recommended on keto, but here you say to limit and even cut away the fat.

As to stuffing myself, I find if I make it real tastey I tend to overeat.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #43

I don’t worry about the fat that comes with meat, except to make sure it’s not totally trimmed off. In fact, I’ve been known to put a pat of butter on a lean piece of meat. I also cook with bacon grease, butter, and lard.

Overeating is what I did as a carb-burner. I would fill up to the point of nearly rupturing my stomach (I mean that literally, by the way) and still be hungry. Since a few weeks after starting keto, I find that I stop being hungry and don’t want more food, even though there is still plenty of room left in my stomach. Furthermore, these days my weight and waistline remain stable even if I eat a bit extra meat or fat. But I still find that if I overdo the carbs, I do tend to get thicker around the middle. So a good reason to stick to low-carb, high-fat foods.

#44

I never ever would cut away fat unless it’s more than half of my meat or something :slight_smile: I dislike most lean meat and eat the rest with fattier items.
FAT is fine and needed - but we shouldn’t eat twice as much as our need and I easily would do that with added fat. Even without, actually, from my protein sources. So I minimize the extra fat.

But it’s me. If I add 100 or 200g fat on top of my needs, I don’t get more satiated than without (maybe 200g longer term… it must have some effect. but one day? nope). Other people say fat satiates them so it’s just like me and protein, overeating is hard to impossible. Overeating fat is my default, I need to fight against that all the time to avoid (not a hard, conscious fight but I need to be careful. I trained myself out of almost everything that isn’t a good protein source. it’s fine, I get enough joy from my protein sources).
Actually, I need to get careful with fatty meats too as they make me overeat fat :frowning: It’s sad, I love those and I haven’t give it up yet… Maybe it works with OMAD.

#45

I have an off switch for protein, it’s something, right? :smiley: And I can get satiated with only 120g protein and some fat. I just easily pile up a TON of fat more :frowning: I don’t do that anymore, I am experienced/trained enough, the problem is that 120g protein brings way too much fat, usually :frowning: And I can’t eat only 120g protein each and every day… But I don’t wanna whine about my situation, I have a plan now anyway. 2022 WILL be my year, I am stubborn.

This is interesting, I don’t have extra energy or heat, I just don’t gain any fat. Can a metabolism get quicker (that had to happen) without any sign? Where the energy go? I obviously don’t talk about my rare high-cal (twice my energy need) days as they were occasional, I talk about serious overeating every day for a month or a year. I did gain fat on HCHF when I overate but I overeat very seriously and gained like 2lbs a year. I have read some (quite many) people are like this, the metabolism quickens when the intake grows. But where my energy goes? I stay lowish energy, I don’t get warmer just like I don’t get colder when fasting…

Because you had a ton to lose, it’s always easier then. I easily lost fat when I had 60lbs to lose, with much carbs (well 80g net, I couldn’t do it with more).
At 30-40, it stopped but you often say it stopped for you too. Some of us refuse to bear this amount of extra fat until we die, we want to lose even this. I don’t worry about my health, I am not vain, it’s not among my top priorities - or just for my peace of mind, I do this “kind of dieting” since 12 years, it gets old despite all the fun I have. Kind of dieting, I mean I try to eat a way to lose fat. And feel good, stay healthy and enjoy the hell out of it or close and not doing anything hard but STILL, I try. I want results. (If I can choose, ENERGY please :smiley: But energy, health and a chance to show off my muscles when I will grow them would be best. I am a hedonist and don’t wanna choose, I want them all. I just won’t fight too hard for them. Easy and slow is my way.)
I imagine most of us want to have a good figure, not just chubby instead of really fat. I wasn’t even really fat and it feels I barely changed (and that didn’t happen on keto. but it will, I just need to be better. since I am more serious about avoiding carbs and fat, therefore little to no dairy - except quark, my saviour - , my numbers are better and my satiation doesn’t suffer from it).

Some of us need tweaks, training and a lot of patience (or being “strong” if one’s preference is like that. my SO wants to be slim even if he suffers a bit, I rather stay fat but I won’t even do small sacrifices. maybe very tiny ones. giving up cream took time but it’s no big deal and I still will indulge once per month) to reach their goals. Or just avoid overeating.

As long as the remaining food gives us all we need from food, it’s fine. And I am big on the right amounts. I eat anything I want, it just wouldn’t be good galore or all the time with certain items so I train myself out of those desires.

Is it possible on keto…? Probably with some items for some people…My stomach has a huge capacity and my keto food is dense and satiating enough to avoid reaching even a quarter of it most of the time.
But being fully satiated and having enough may be different. Probably most of us knows that :slight_smile: Hunger goes away and it even gets replaced with a nice feeling and our thoughts aren’t on food anymore (or just mentally, I love the topic even when very satiated). My favorite state. Not TOO satiated, not even nearly full (I hate that), just perfect.
And I don’t address the problem where we must stuff myself at our meals or when we should stop eating while a bit still hungry, those are special cases and hopefully not very common. But one can figure out those too. But normally the right diet and timing helps enough and one can stop when getting just nicely satiated.

I thought I have read everything here but I don’t remember anyone saying that. Who did it? And… WHY? If you need less fat, just buy leaner meat! Or if there are reasons to buy the fatty one, one can make fat for cooking from the fat tissue… But if the very fatty meat is enjoyable, it can be used with leaner items on the day,to avoid overeating. Variety is nice anyway.

My very fatty fried pork is tiny too, so little is my daily energy need (and it has not enough protein)… When I make some and not just a one day portion (why would I do that, more work and energy usage per meal), I immediately box and freeze a part of it and carefully measure some decent amount for the actual day. I can jump my eggs and leaner pork with abandon but certain items require a bit careful handling.

In short: we need the RIGHT amount of fat. Not too little, not a ton. About the right one. It’s not necessarily a tiny range even for us who track and have some idea about our right macros. My fat is all over the place but in average, it shouldn’t be even close to 200g. But it’s me, other people can afford more. Some should stay way lower.
So we should choose our food right. We need satiation, proper nutrition, the right amount of energy, whatever that means and there are other factors.
No one says you should trim your meat of if they do, they probably aren’t right…
You should figure out what works for you. I want to eat my too fatty meat so I try to make it happen. In the worst case I eat it on my inevitable high-cal days I have now and then. I suspect there is a reason for them. I had them while losing fat on low-carb too. My body hates eating at a deficit each and every day. My mind too I am sure.

We can’t tell the answers for your individual case. We can say a few things, facts, personal experiences, tips… But it’s up to you in the end. What works for us, even for most people, may not be right for you.

#46

agree, I thought I didn’t have an off switch til I went carnivore. Guess what, I DO have one as long as carbs don’t pass my lips LOL
I tell ya, the bottomless pit feeling is just horrible for those battling it, I was one, I get it as were I would guess was alot of us.

heal metabolism, repair hormones and body and what we do eat even on our plans means whether we can crush this hurdle. Only we can do it for ourselves ya know…experiment and learn and change and adapt and forward we go.

This. but each person’s timeline won’t be the same. I had to eat and eat and eat like a maniac when I went zc to hold plan and be ‘ok’ to stay on plan. but like you say, one day, boom…my body was more repaired, my body was more nourished and it changed me and what I wanted to eat. A healthy body asks for what it needs when it is ready to ask just that :slight_smile: So agree, most of us walk this path and we fall into such a good healthy appetite that suits us each.

well you have to consider what are you stuffing yourself with?
keto plan one can kinda find more ‘yummy trigger food items’ to binge on cause that plan allows it in a way.

first rule of thumb is eat meat and fat first…think what do you ‘really’ want after but if you are making big ol’ fancy keto friendly yummy recipes etc…yea one can suck it down real fast, all of it, when a recipe says it makes 4 servings and ya eat it all HAHA has nothing to with serving size etc…but it can be made from ingredients that don’t trigger your satiaty as fast as meat/fat proteins and one can tend to inhale it all before ya know it :slight_smile:

in truth you are not overeating kinda ya know. IF YOU can eat it you need it but if one is earlier on plan, this should change later when you won’t want it truly. good luck moving forward!! sounds like ya got this!!

(Bill) #47

Cream not “creamers” …use the proper stuff from a cow with nothing added.

#48

Yep! Them cows know what they’re doing ; ) Nestle… less so :rofl:

#49

Whole milk or cream?

#50

Milk is more sugary and way more watery (I mean not fatty enough? the coffee has water too so it’s not actually the water is the problem, more like the macro ratio), of course cream :smiley:
(But sometimes milk should do, I have such times. It’s very much inferior to cream and it’s easy to get a lot of sugar that way but these both are individual things.)

Basically either will do if it suits you…

#51

How about the coffee and creamers you get from McDonald’s? I usually get a large coffee with 10 creamers

#52

I’m another diabetic success story courtesy low carb eating, going from HgA1C 6.6 to 5.1 with speed that I found surprising. There is a great deal of good advice in this thread. PaulL is absolutely right about how T2D is in no way sudden. We are way too slow in diagnosing insulin resistance disease. Harm accrues over decades in the form of obesity, fatty liver, hypertension, and atherosclerosis, with no signal from our doctors until our beta cells begin to lose the race to produce ever more insulin in order to keep up with our cells’ decreasing ability to use it. Then with little warning the hammer falls and we find ourselves asking, “How did this happen?”

(Robin) #53

I use to get 10 creams at McD too. They have great coffee. Pretty sure it’s half and half.
I use heavy cream at home, but when eating out I will use half and half.

#54

I have just a few suggestions, all of which may be redundant to what others have said. First, invest in a glucose meter if you can, optimally one like the Keto Mojo that can also measure ketone bodies. I’m glad I used mine, but I was so fat that all I really needed to have confidence that keto was working was a scale and a belt. Someone thin like you can make good use of the feedback, as Bill points out. Second, I would concentrate on cutting the carbs before fine tuning other aspects of my diet. There is a learning curve there. Google is helpful, and so is a close, critical reading of labels. There is no reason to avoid saturated fats, but lots of the details can wait. It is hard to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. Third, metformin is a good medicine, accepted by the keto establishment and not counterproductive like some other medications that work by stimulating insulin production. It can be a good bridge while adapting fully to keto, and not everyone is successful using diet alone. Finally, have you looked at the possibility that you have sleep apnea? Lots of frequent awakenings to pee get blamed on the prostate when the real villain is interrupted breathing. It is a weird chain of causation, but the interruption causes a reduction in oxygen saturation. This causes the arterioles in the lung to contract. That seem counterintuitive, but at night you don’t need much of your lung capacity, and blood mostly follows the path of least resistance through only a part. Constricting the little blood vessels forces blood through more lung tissue, kind of like how putting a finger on the first hole in an old-fashioned multi-spout drinking fountain sends more water down the line. How well I remember soaking my friends’ faces with that old trick. Anyway, the constriction also raises blood pressure on the left side of the heart. This triggers stretch receptors in the left atrium, which produce a natriuretic peptide that tells your kidneys to dump some water from the circulatory system. After about one day of CPAP, I went from up ten times a night to up zero or once. And even thin people are sometimes apneic.

#55

So you recommend 10 creamers in my coffee at Mc’Ds?

#56

Thank you. Being a respiratory therapist and only a few lbs overweight my whole life I dont have sleep apnea I fall back to sleep after the bathroom every two hours. I will continue with the keto plan as I know it’s already helped tremendously with my shoulder pain

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #57

A lot of “creamers” are non-dairy concoctions that are loaded with carbohydrate. A simple Internet search shows that the McDonald’s Web site gives no list of ingredients, for its creamer, but another site (assuming it is accurate) claims the ingredients are milk, cream, sodium phosphate, DATEM, sodium stearoyl lactylate, sodium citrate, and carrageenan. I leave you to decide what you want to do.

#58

This is all great advice thank you so much PST

#59

Paul how would you drink your coffee at McDonald’s assuming you were to? Thank you

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #60

Hot and black. Completely unadulterated, the way God created it.

I should, however, point out that I was a tea drinker until, at one of my college jobs, the workplace provided only coffee. To be able to tolerate it, I loaded it up with sugar and cream. It took years to eliminate first the cream, then the sugar. Now, if the coffee is not plain, I can’t really enjoy it.