I'll Say One Thing for CICO

(Sarah Slancauskas) #121

I don’t buy that. There are times when I’ve eaten poorly and could feel the small changes in weight but instead of letting it get out of hand, I redoubled my efforts to get myself into a healthier path. After both my children, I had ‘baby weight’ to lose and I successfully lost it with CICO. I wasn’t just lucky, I had to make choices and decide to not eat certain foods or eat above my calories. My mum is obese, and I, like most, will put weight on if I make the choices which are harmful to me. I didn’t win some lucky gene bingo-I used self control and willpower Nd actively sought out a healthy lifestyle. So it DOES pertain to me.

(Alec) #122

Ref The Biggest Loser studies. Case closed.

(Sarah Slancauskas) #123

Not at all. The entire concept of The Biggest Loser was floored. You can’t write off the concept of CICO that easily! The contestants were made to exercise 8hrs a day for a start - totally excessive, completely unrealistic once the show was over, would cause havoc on the nervous system and be unsustainable long term. Food choices still matter - quality food has a different effect on the body than processed food, which the body doesn’t recognise. There are numerous factors at play. The Biggest Loser study is a poor study to cite in this context.

(Adam Kirby) #124

Again though, if you were never obese from childhood despite eating “normally”, as is the case with many, you might as well be a different species from those who have lived this. I have been lean my whole life, and only when my diet got really bad did I get a bit pudgy. You think I was aware of calorie balance as a skinny teenager? Of course I wasn’t, nor would I have cared. Don’t attribute CICO to favorable genetics.

(Adam Kirby) #125

Then unfortunately you don’t strongly believe in CICO. The minute you introduce ANY other factor than calories to the equation you are admitting CICO is flawed. The strict CICO framework is that the ONLY thing that matters for weight loss is calories in vs calories out. Food quality, satiety, craving reduction… For real-world weight loss these things are required, and can only be explained by the hormonal model of obesity.

#126

Sorry, Sarah. I don’t doubt that things worked out this way for you, but it’s just not like that for a lot of people. The Biggest Loser is a great example (extreme, but totally valid since all of those processes happen on a smaller scale ALL the time for dieters), and when folks come into the world - or into their adult lives - with serious insulin resistance, it’s just a radically different situation. There are so many stories on here of folks who track everything and can’t lose on calorie-restriction. It’s incredibly frustrating for them. There are also folks who don’t lose unless they raise their calories, which basically knocks CICO out completely. It’s not that it doesn’t explain some situations for some people, but you can’t extrapolate that it should apply for everyone because it applied to you.

(shane ) #127

To me it sounds as if the argument for all of it is not whether the diet causes you to lose weight, but if it is effective over the long term.

I would say “THIS” is the conundrum. Most people who are obese do not have a healthy relationship with food. This relationship when put into caloric restriction can cause binge eating and a complete lack of will power to avoid very addictive sugar laden foods. Thus causing the person to fail over and over again.

Keto brings the answer. Don’t eat the foods that cause the binge. Instead fill them with foods that are more satiating and in addition are very satisfying. This is what makes keto so easy to follow and should give a person who has an unhealthy relationship with food a much better fighting chance to succeed.

I am curious for those who do not track caloric values in food, what do you track? If it is not a calorie, than what is it?

(Terence Dean) #128

I track my weight daily that tells me everything I need to know. I either lose or I don’t but I usually know why. I wouldn’t know how many calories in a lamb chop nor do I care.

#129

I think of food as just… food. I’m very interested in food quality but I definitely don’t think in terms of calories.

(shane ) #130

You usually know why? And what or why would you gain or lose?

(Karen) #131

Sarah, in many ways, I think you are right. But for those with diseases from over indulgence of high carb foods, and can’t “eat just one”, keto helps. Seems like you are gaining some benefit, and that’s good too. There are people who have been on this woe for decades. It’s safe and healthy for them.

K

(Terence Dean) #132

Well one example would be the day I ate nearly 1 kg of pork belly, next day I had put on 0.7 kg on the scale. Jee I wonder what caused that? Another example: I was on a three day stall, and moved it by eating 1/4 of a commercial cheese cake, instead of my regular lunch. Next day I lost weight (0.2kg) and back on track, all without needing to calculate or count calories. I’m not really interested in counting calories but I know what makes me lose or gain weight. Keto just takes a lot of guess work out of the equation when I eat zero carbs (not counting the hidden carbs in green vegetables).

(Adam Kirby) #133

I track what my distant ancestors tracked - nothing.

Oh for sure, I’m very aware of the macro breakdown of food after reading a ton of labels. But all that governs is what specific foods I eat.

(Karen) #134

When I was 30 i didn’t track anything. Weighed a normal weight. I was likely TOFI too. I actually thought I was just one of those people that could just eat whatever, whenever I wanted. I would gain or drop a few pounds easily with a minor adjustment. I smile at my arrogance now.

Sign me older and wiser

(TJ Borden) #135

It’s the perfect study to cite. CICO is EXACTLY what they did. Lower calories in, and increase output to loose weight.

In the eyes of nutritionist pushing the CICO method, maintenance should be easy once you find your equilibrium. What they don’t understand, is how the metabolism adjusts, and specifically, how little control you have on the number of calories your body decides to burn.

(Sarah Slancauskas) #136

I’m not suggesting that CICO is the only strategy; I’m saying using it with keto is, in my opinion, the ultimate way to tackle diet.
I’m also saying that CICO does work for SOME not all. I defend it not to try to convince others to try it; it’s just I’ve found on this forum a blanket disdain for it and a shuttered view that it is bad and that’s it. I’m saying that ok, maybe in your experience it didn’t work but that doesn’t mean it can’t work for some and I am a person who has indeed benefited from it. I know lots of people who have.

(TJ Borden) #137

If it worked so well, why keto?

(Sarah Slancauskas) #138

The Biggest Loser study is too extreme in my opinion. No one in the real world can live like that. CICO in the real world (or mine at least!) is keeping an eye on what you’re eating with a deficit built in if you’re looking to shed weight and getting movement and workouts in to help that along. I disagree with the comment above about food quality not being important on CICO; the body physically reacts differently to processed ‘food’ so making sure your calories are made up entirely of real whole food is a must if you’re doing a calorie in/calorie out plan. The biggest loser diet plans were often fairly crap and still quite heavily processed.

(Sarah Slancauskas) #139

I’m doing it solely for brain health as I have the APOE4 Alzheimer’s gene. The keto diet has been shown to help this.

(Sarah Slancauskas) #140

I’m still applying CICO within the keto framework. I’m at 18% body fat but still dropped s couple of lbs… maybe it was water or inflammation. I think keto offers a lot of excellent health benefits.