I think I may be fat adapted... what's the Next Step?

(Adriana Ro) #1

Yesterday I wasn’t hungry, but I still ate my Lunch and Dinner (no breakfast and no snacks) because I tought it was too Early to actually fast. I Did the same exact thing today and still (almost) no hunger! I couldn’t believe it was Dinner time! Do you guys think I am fat adapted or is it too Soon to talk about fat adaptation for now? (I’ve done keto for a bit over 3 months)

I was thinking about doing OMAD tomorrow and Sunday as Well and see how it goes. Maybe Monday I Will do a 48h fast, what do you think?

And if you do think that I may be fat adapted, which is the Next Step?

Sorry for being so silly, I’m just excited because I was going to give up on keto, but now I feel a lot better

(Full Metal KETO AF) #2

I think you’re probably fat adapted if you’re not thinking about food and not hungry. Are you loosing weight or inches still? If you have fat to loose especially you should curb fats a bit to use body fat for energy. As long as you’re feeling good and progressing towards your goal it’s all good. Eat when you’re hungry and don’t eat if you’re not :cowboy_hat_face:

(Adriana Ro) #3

I haven’t lost tonsof weight actually, but people start to notice that I lost weight so probably I lost inches.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #4

I’m glad you didn’t quit and are feeling and looking better. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Alec) #5

Once you are fat adapted, and you are not hungry, it simply means your body wants to lose weight. It wants to use your bodyfat before you feed it something else. That’s the mechanism.

These mechanics are managed by various hormones, and while you have been eating keto and getting fat adapted, you have been fixing and re-regulating your hormone balance to help your body manage this automatically.

So, you now have a superpower. You can function perfectly well for many days without having to eat. Ask a carb burner to do that, he will eat his own arm off. :joy::joy::joy:

So, next step? Try some fasting. You may find you really like it. It is also a powerful way to lose bodyfat.

(Scott) #6

It’s over, you’re at the end of the road.

Just kidding. This is where it gets fun, glad you stuck with it during the crappy parts. I say just have fun with it. Cook new foods, try fasting etc. It also depends on what goals you have like weight, T2D and things like that my change what’s next but you can just keep going and change nothing too.

(Adriana Ro) #7

My carb burner friends cant even go two hours without eating. We really do have a superpower folks! :joy:

(Ang ) #8

Hi Adrianna:

I’m new to the forum, hope it’s okay to chime in here.

I used to be a firm believer in long term fasts, (Germany leads the way in fasting for healing). But, they still implement some broth and things during the fasting times; folks are highly monitored. My longest fast was 8 days and 8 nights, coffee and water only. BUT I was not in a fasting state because I still had a cup of coffee in the morning. Caffeine takes you out of a fasting state! Who knew?! Now I avoid caffeine like the plague.

I would not recommend fasting for more than 24 hours, because you will begin to lose muscle mass (not a good thing).

If you’re keto’ing for weight loss, just keep the fat lower (no fat-bombs), a person who needs/wants to lose weight has all the fat bomb they need (on the hips, belly, thighs… the list goes on, ha). Make sure you’re eating enough protein .7 to .8 grams per lean muscle mass, and keep your TOTAL carbs under 20.

If you’re not sure if you’re in ketosis, avoid dairy for a good solid month or two (as this has a tendency to kick some folks out of ketosis), and keep your nut intake low (almond flours included).

What are the next steps? Keep on keepin’ on! Learn to enjoy your kitchen (or enjoy it more); by finding new and fun things you can try that are actually safe for you to eat!

I’ve been making keto-adapted gummy bears lately. Thought I would find it tedious, but it’s actually quick and I enjoy it. My whole family no longer grabs a handful of gummy bears and thoughtlessly shoves them into their mouths; because they understand the work I put into making them; so they actually enjoy what their eating!

You’re not silly, you’re excited, don’t give up!

(Carl Keller) #9

Jason Fung permits his patients to have coffee while fasting and even says a little cream in their coffee is fine. The fasting purist might disagree but JF says that the antioxidants in coffee may act as a mild appetite suppressant and the caffeine helps boost metabolism which amplifies fat burning.

I will note that there are conflicting studies that say coffee can increase insulin and blood glucose levels while others say they don’t. My personal experience while fasting and drinking cofee suggests that it does not complicate the fast.

BTW, welcome to the forum. :slight_smile:

(Windmill Tilter) #10

This isn’t necessarily true. Lots of folks gain muscle while doing weekly fasts >24 hours. I’ve fasted for 84hrs every week for the last 11 weeks, and I’ve gained several pounds of muscle. I do the Body by Science resistance training workout only once every 6 days for 20 minutes and it’s the only exercise that I do. I’ve also lost 40lbs which has been great.

Also, losing lean mass is not the same as losing muscle. Excess skin is lean mass. It’s not something most people really try to retain, and the surgery to remove it after losing a significant amount of weight is quite expensive. The best way I’m aware of to reduce excess skin while losing weight is fasting.

There are also a gazillion ways to fast from time restricted feeding window (18 hours fasting, 6 hours eating), to alternate day fasting, to 72hr fasts once a week. Dr. Fung’s entire Intensive Dietary Management practice revolves around weekly fasting, and those folks seem to do just fine. I’m a big fan of Dr. Fung’s book “The Obesity Code”.

I’m not suggesting that the OP should fast, it’s not for everybody, but there are many ways to fast that don’t involve the loss of muscle.

(Jane) #11

Isn’t it AMAZING!!! :smiley:

This morning I had to get some blood drawn and the orders came from a specialist in another city so I went to my PCP for the blood draw. My husband and I had not eaten anything yet and it was almost 11:00 am. No biggie - we are fat-adapted.

Well, my PCP didn’t know how to draw for one of the tests so they sent me across the street to the hospital. Well, I had to wait an hour to be “admitted”, sign a bunch of paperwork and wait some more to be called for the blood draw.

By this time it was after 1:00 pm. Pre-keto I wound have been STARVING!!! And cranky and have a low blood sugar headache by then. My husband and I shrugged and said “meh”. We didn’t care.

(Robert C) #12

If you do OMAD Saturday and Sunday and a 48 hour fast Monday and Tuesday - that means you would only have two meals between now and Wednesday.

Yes, meal skipping is a way to get your body to burn stored fat and being fat-adapted makes that less painful but - you might want to think about a scheme that is more sustainable (and therefore likely more effective).

Something like 2 36 to 42-hour fasts per week (two non-consecutive full days of not eating - ending with breakfast or lunch).
Once comfortable with that (and if you find that tolerable - you’ll know after a month), move up to 3 fasts per week.

I think this is similar to what the IDM program does and so, probably good in terms of compliance (which is a big focus for them).

(Robert C) #13

I think the important distinction is the exercise - specifically strength training.

One of the fasting adaptations is to produce extra human growth hormone (HGH).

The body wants the muscle spared and the fat burned and the extra HGH will help.

But, if you just lay around or only do light exercise (walking, cardio etc.) the extra HGH bath your muscles are getting will only serve to slow down muscle breakdown.

That is a big waste - add some strength training to take advantage of the extra HGH and you likely ensure any muscle loss was made up for by new muscle gained - and maybe extra too.

(Windmill Tilter) #14

Good point. Resistance training definitely plays a key role in retaining lean mass during weight loss. I believe that’s true any time you lose weight. My understanding is that regardless of how you do it, if you lose 1lb of fat, you will lose a few ounces of lean mass. I’ve never seen anyone quantify the lean mass loss difference between regular weight loss vs fasting weight loss, but I’d bet the difference is relatively small; it’s possible that the advantage might even lean towards fasting depending on the duration/frequency.

I guess my point was just that whatever the lean mass loss is from 84 hours of weekly fasting, even 15-20 minutes of resistance training per week is more than enough to offset it.

(Robert C) #15

There is another aspect to the losing a pound means losing muscle mass.

When you lose significant weight (25-50 pounds), you simply do not need as much muscle.

Every time you stand up your legs need to push up against less and less resistance.

Body won’t keep metabolically expensive muscle around it doesn’t need.

(Alec) #16

Can’t agree more… 2nd Saturday in a row that after my regular 5k race this morning I was just not hungry, and disappointed my local cafe by not ordering my regular breakfast, and just had a coffee.

It’s now lunchtime, and still not hungry. I can feel the body fat being chewed on! :joy: I think my body has just decided it doesn’t like how fat we are (my body and me!)

(mole person) #17

This is an excellent question and just one of many unknowns. I’m completely dissatisfied that lean mass losses, during reasonable length fasting by people with decent fat stores, is mainly composed of tissues that we want to preserve. Lean mass is everything that isn’t fat mass, it even includes blood volume which also shrinks as you lose weight.

We need some serious fasting science to answer a bunch of questions.

  1. What amount of muscle, bone, and organ mass is lost during short term extended fasting?

  2. What are the differences between losses in these tissues attained via this dietary restriction versus a similar fat loss from calorie restriction?

  3. How persistent are these changes? I mean, I really don’t care if I lose an ounce of muscle on a fast if my body builds it right back on a decent refeed coupled with a workout.

I know that I gain muscle just fine while losing weight. I understand that this doesn’t work for elite bodybuilders, but I’m not one and neither is most everyone else. Until I see decent science in contradiction I’m absolutely inclined to believe from multiple n=1 anecdotal evidence that the same applies to reasonable length fasting followed by appropriate refeed size and duration.

(mole person) #18

So much this. If someone is sedentary there is zero reason for the body to preserve tissues that are no longer required to push around the same load.

(mole person) #19

Here are some interesting and relevant thoughts from Richard in another thread.

More yummy lean mass that does nothing but support the fat mass for your body to catabolize and scavenge for proteins.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #20

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2279566/