I think I’m out, y’all

(Chris W) #61

In a way I’m a bit envious that you tolerate metformin well and see positive effects. I was on metformin for about 10 years and getting off of it was one of my major drivers for going LCHF. I think I tried every variation of metformin, and had the best luck with the 750 ER, but it seemed like I was always flirting with intestinal problems the whole time I was taking it. The dose I took at dinner was the least problematic.

If you continue to tolerate some carbs well, then it may be that your metabolic challenge is more one of glucagon dysregulation rather than carbohydrate intolerance.

I suspect many like me, who have struggled for years with T2D likely face both conditions to one degree or another. It would be interesting to unravel and isolate the various mechanisms. For me, removing nearly all the carbs seems key to appetite regulation, eliminating plant based foods and fiber helped tremendously with stable energy and body composition, but for me, higher protein intake does prevent my blood sugar from dropping to completely normal levels, indicating perhaps some challenges in regards to glucagon signalling GNG to stop.
I’m curious, and still have a bunch of metformin 750 ER on hand… but I think I’ll let my current “moderated protein zero-carb carnivore” experimant continue for a while and see where it takes me.

Good luck in your experiment with re-introducing some carbs. I hope it brings you the energy you are looking for without bringing back any of the demons. Thanks for sharing and please continue to report back. :smiley:

(jilliangordona) #62

When I first started I had horrible digestive issues but they subsided within a few days. I took it as a teen, when off it in college (where I gained the typical 25 lbs), found keto yet STILL struggled to drop any weight for over a year. That is when my doctor, who is luckily an advocate for keto, suggested that some women with PCOS just need the extra boost, so she prescribed metformjn. I lost 8lbs shortly after, but haven’t had a loss since.

My ketones were reading very high, normally around a 6 to 7 mmol/L on a normal day, and I am curious if those high ketones somehow impacted my weight loss. Now by adding more carbs, I am consistently getting 0.5 to 0.7 mmol/L.

(What The Fast?!) #63

Dude, that’s so legit! I’m fasting heavily right now, but do plan to integrate some carbs around workouts once I finally lose weight.

(jilliangordona) #64

I still haven’t lost weight :woman_shrugging:t2:. In my mind adding more carbs won’t make it happen but I’m willing to try it and see how my body reacts. As long as I’m not going back to a SAD diet I’m okay with it.

Fasting just seems to make me tired and I’ve never experienced weight loss from it :sob:. This body of mine sure is stubborn

(Todd Allen) #65

I’ve been headed in a similar direction though my fasting glucose is a little higher and my carb tolerance might still be somewhat lower. I consider myself keto because I’m regularly tracking my state of ketosis and striving with good success to sustain my ketone levels at the low end of the keto range, ie 0.5 mmol/L. Back when my FBG was in the range of 100-120 mg/dl my tolerance for carbs was very low, but now that it’s in the 70-80 mg/dl range most of the time and drops into the 60s during EF I’ve also been able to incorporate modest amounts of sugars and starches from “non-keto” foods such as you listed. My current threshhold seems to be around 50 g net carbs per day though it can vary +/- 20 g.

It’s not at all clear to me what is optimal. Perhaps I’d do better long term being more strict, or maybe I’d be fine at 0.3 mmol/L? I no longer am losing weight easily but my focus now is more on performance/gaining muscle. When my weight creeps up I do some fasting to knock it back down and I get a dose of high ketones. I doubt I’ll wander off and leave the keto herd though for the moment being on the fringe instead of in the center appears to be working for me.

(What The Fast?!) #66

Girl, same. I lose weight, but it seems to come right back. I’m trying to longer extended fasts and see if that helps. Right now, I’m 63 hours into an open-ended fast. I’m planning to go until I get into the 130’s (currently at 142.0), rather than choosing a set amount of time. I do feel lethargic today - my legs feel really heavy, I literally dreaded walking up the stairs just now! But, all the advice I’ve seen from Megan Ramos and from people who have done IDM is to stick it out, try to get a really long fast in to “break through.” I started keto at 148ish, about 11 months ago now. I’m going to get a new DEXA soon to see if my body composition has changed at all.

(jilliangordona) #67

Good luck. Maybe I just don’t have the willpower, but with so much success on keto I feel like there HAS to be an easier way than fasting for days on end. But maybe that is just the wrong mindset… right now all I know is I am more focused on energy. I’d rather have my energy back and never lose a pound.

Well, I take that back. I’m in wedding mode and want to lose a few before my wedding… I will probably fast more in the summer months when I am not teaching and can rest and feel tired without making my job miserable.

(What The Fast?!) #68

Have you tried fat fasting? People seem to have good results with that. I also tried the bacon experiment where you just eat 1.5 lbs of bacon a day and I lost on that too. :slight_smile:

(jilliangordona) #69

I did once but I never really gave it a good shot. Once I’m over this flu I should probably give it a try. For some reason lately bacon (and most meat) has sounded super gross to me, I never want it! It’s been like that for a month… normally I could happily eat a pack in one sitting.

I’m a weird one, I know

(What The Fast?!) #70

Not weird. :slight_smile: I think most people don’t love the idea of eating only bacon very appealing. I LOVE bacon and even I would love some avocado and olive oil mixed in. :slight_smile:

(Boston_guy) #71

Hi-
Do you know if you have high Homocysteine? (background: https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/beyond-good-and-evil/)

(What The Fast?!) #72

I just clicked the link and got super lost in the info…can you provide a TL;DR (short summary)?

(jilliangordona) #73

Lol, I came here to say just this.

(jilliangordona) #74

Here’s a more clear article. https://www.drweil.com/health-wellness/body-mind-spirit/heart/elevated-homocysteine/

I’m a little hesitant to claim this as there are no symptoms… if there are no symptoms per se how can it block my weight loss? Wouldn’t that be a symptom?

(Adam Kirby) #75

IMO then extended fasting is not lowering your set point and is not actually a weight loss solution for you.

(What The Fast?!) #76

But straight keto resulted in zero weight loss…so extended fasting is really my only option to drive down my set point. It’s sloooooowly lowering down with extended fasting.

(Boston_guy) #77

Software guy here, but I’ll try! Basically: if you get too much protein from muscle meat, an amino acid called Methionine builds up. Results in Homocysteine.

Glycine is an amino acid from collagen (Grandma’s chicken soup: boiling the bones, making that jelly) thatss in short supply these days. Glycine has benefits in reducing inflammation, allowing the body to process Methionine.

Long story short: excess Homocysteine would indicate an imbalance.

fall2012masterjohnfig1.jpg1195×580 40.3 KB

(jilliangordona) #78

Thanks for the break down, I guess I am a little confused as to why it was suggested, is it an inhibitor of weight loss?

(Adam Kirby) #79

Serious question, is it worth it? You seem to do crazy long fasts and then regain most/all of the weight during the refeed period.

(jilliangordona) #80

Andrea and I have gone through similar issues, and not to answer for her, but when you’re doing everything right and see every one else losing weight but you… doing just about anything to shake it up seems worth it to try and get the results everyone else has.