I think I’m out, y’all

(jilliangordona) #1

I had an appointment with a naturopath today, which was a great experience. She knew the benefits of keto and recommended it to many patients, so I am trusting of her for the time being.

I have been keto for over a year and a half now, and while my blood work has come back positive in terms of my A1c, fasting glucose, etc, I am tired all of the time. This just doesn’t fly with being a teacher and grad student. Thyroid, b12, vit D, iron, all have been checked, all normal. I keep up with all electrolytes, I have tried carnivore. Throw it at me, and I’ve probably already tried it.

I am transitioning to paleo to see if I see improvements, at this naturopaths recommendations.

I honestly didn’t have energy issues pre keto, and while I have spurts here and there, the bad days outnumber the good. I hope I am wrong and end up right back here with y’all following keto, and I do NOT was this post to encourage anyone else from tapping out. I fully support keto and think it is a kickass way to live.

For now, I am out. Thanks for the love and support and wonderful community that has been created here. We all preach that every body is different, and I need to investigate if another way of eating is the way for me.

Update- I think I’m out y’all
#2

@jilliangordona
I have enjoyed your posts and am grateful for what you have given here. Take your wisdom and please be well. Healing comes in all kinds of ways. I hope all the healing you need finds the way to you. Deserving health and being blessed!

(Charlie Kathopoulis) #3

Our best wishes Jillian and I hope it goes well. Possibly introducing small amounts of carbs with real foods (ie paleo) will help and you’ll find that burst of energy. Please keep us posted

(TJ Borden) #4

I, for one, would love for you to stick around. With the experience you have in Keto, I’m sure you will be able to provide the group great insight as you transition to paleo. Plus, we’re talking about a “cousin” way of eating here. It’s not like you’re leaving keto for the krispy creme diet.

(jilliangordona) #5

I should add I will probably still pop into the forum, but I am out for now on full keto. Y’all give me some kick butt recipes that I don’t think I could shy away from!

#6

When you say they were normal, did you see the numbers and verify for yourself that they were actually good levels? I’ve experienced doctors in the past who thought in the lab range meant that all was well, and that isn’t always the case. Some lab ranges are really far off.

(Brian) #7

I also would be interested in knowing how things play out for you, what changes you make, and how you react to them. Please do continue to post here! We’re interested.

:slight_smile:

(Tessy M.) #8

I hope you find a way to feel better soon! One thing I may suggest, DexaFit facilities are offering a wide range of tests that they say help you to identify what is right for you based on tests like those traditionally done by a doctor as well as some genetic testing. I’m sure there are other companies out there doing it, but just a suggestion that may help you find answers.

(Stan Brooks) #9

Also know as a snake oil salesmen. I wish you the best and I hope you get better and I really hope you are seeing an actual doctor.

#10

Jillian, sending good luck and good wishes to you! And like so many others, I hope to see updates from you over time.

(TJ Borden) #11

While that might be true sometimes, naturopathic approaches are known for challenging conventional beliefs and are likely valuable allies for the ketogenic lifestyle.

As in @jilliangordona’s case. Her naturopath has recommended keto to patients.

(TJ Borden) #12

And like it or not, Keto is a naturopathic solution. We don’t add meds, we reduce and eliminate them

(Rob) #13

You seem young and more than relatively healthy. I don’t know what your blood numbers were before ‘Keto’ but I assume they weren’t disastrous, unlike many here. It is not at all surprising that you can handle and probably NEED more carbs. I think this highlights one of the few weaknesses of the keto movement - a too rigid focus on the 20g and the implicit assumption of many who are changing their lives at these lower numbers, that we are all the same.

To me ‘keto’ is eating the number of carbs that doesn’t damage you - it may be 100g net for you, 30g net for me, 15g gross for someone else - moderate protein (flexing based on goals and issues e.g. muscle building etc.) and fat to satiety. If you are having to up the grams for energy that is not only fine but a very welcome contribution to the diversity of keto.

I would suggest sticking around here to work with the others who can/need to eat more carbs and help those that find themselves in a similar situation. That was an example of what we might get out of the 'Skinny/Lean/Preventative Keto group that I proposed recently. Call it Paleo or whatever, but I still think it’s valuable in this community if you are interested.

(TJ Borden) #14

Agreed. As a maintenance, I would think elements from keto, paleo, Mediterranean, et al, would all do the trick.

I often have to tell people when discussing keto that I don’t eat carrots now, because they can slow my progress, but eating carrots doesn’t make you fat, and there’s nothing wrong with eating your fill if you’re not trying to lose weight or reverse diabetes.

(Candy Lind) #15

I hope you continue to check in with us! Good luck!

(Stan Brooks) #16

No. They are known for rejecting science. Those are not allies that are needed.

And? Mussolini made the trains run on time. Compare to all the other things he did we shouldn’t be praising that. You don’t cherry pick what you like.

No it is not. A ketogenic diet is based off of fact. It has scientific studies to back it up.

You might think what’s the harm? If you take the time to look you can see it.

(TJ Borden) #17

Based on the figures in your link, I’d say they’re still performing way better than our current medical system that, although is “supposed” to be science based, has been ignoring nutritional science for 50 years.

http://www.unmultimedia.org/radio/english/2012/11/diabetes-kills-3-4-million-people-every-year-who/

According to this UN article (from 2012, so a bit dated), 3.4 million people die every year from diabetes. That’s following the system recommended by your “real doctors”.

I’m not trying to argue. I’ve never been to a naturopath, and don’t have any plans to, but I’m not seeing anything in your generalized arguments against them that wouldn’t also apply to modern conventional medicine and as you put it:

(Stan Brooks) #18

I’m sorry in both instances we are talking about people following dogma and not science.

Just like the fact that a person can do one good thing doesn’t me we overlook a bunch of bad things, saying that because modern systems, not science but systerms, have been mostly wrong on diabetes doesn’t mean you should disregard everything else. For example vaccines work great but most naturopaths recommend not getting them.

That’s one that that worries me. People believe that they were told A was wrong so B,C,D etc must also be wrong. That’s really dangerous thinking.

(TJ Borden) #19

Agreed, but I also don’t think it’s a good idea to group everyone together based on our perception. Case in point: most doctors WOULD categorize keto as naturopathic because they’ve ignored (or haven’t been informed) of the science and through diet alone we allow the body to heal itself naturally. From their angle, we are the ones ignoring science. We just know that the science they are referring to is flawed.

I’m not into naturopathy and I’m not endorsing it. I gladly take antibiotics when my doctor tells me to, but we automatically assume they collectively reject science, when we just may not be aware of the science they’re using. What’s to say they haven’t just rejected flawed science in their fields the same way we have when it comes to nutrition.

If I sound like a skeptic, I am. I followed my doctors recommendations for 20 years only to end up pre-diabetic and told I need to start taking meds and that I’m on a path thatwill eventually lead to kidney failure and the most I can hope for is to “manage” (which just means prolong the inevitable) it. So yeah, I’ve become somewhat a skeptic, or at least someone that doesn’t assume something is true just because someone calling themselves an expert says so.

I’m sure there are many valid points on the website you linked to, but crusing through it a bit, they are grouping a whole lot of issues and disciplines under one big umbrella. It would suggest someone who calls themselves a naturopath when it comes to nutrition also believes in voodoo, and I doubt that’s always the case, or even frequently the case.

In any event, as you said, Keto has science to back it up, and @jilliangordona’s naturopath recommends it, so clearly the blanket statement that all naturopaths reject science, can’t be true.

(Stan Brooks) #20

Every doctor I have ever been too has stated to me that diabetes can be controlled with diet and exercise.

No I am not automatically assuming anything. This stuff has interested me for years. Name a naturopath treatment and I can most likely explain their hypothesis. I know what they claim and because I know that I am very comfortable saying it is anti science.

Show me the science.

I agree.

You don’t. At all. So don’t worry :grin:

Not to call you out but as anyone who goes to http://whatstheharm.net/ can see they actually have 70 or so different categories. They show how x practice/belief caused people harm. They are not grouping people all together.

Maybe not voodoo but yes they believe in some other pseudoscience. Like with Ol’ El Dulce just cause he got one thing right doesn’t mean he should be praised.

Yes it can. It’s literally the what the word means.