I think I figured out the sweets aspect for keto


(Cindy) #21

Just saying that there IS a difference between a craving and an addiction. Not all who crave sugar are addicted to it.

This really isn’t a good argument for sugar addiction. Correlation doesn’t equal causation (as in, because diabetics don’t give up sugar, they’re addicted to it). My mom is a T2D and yes, she clings to her carbs and sugar, but that’s because she’s been told by doctors and the food industry that the T2D is a result of her WEIGHT. And her weight is due to…FAT and excess calories. So by that logic, as long as she moderates her carb/sugar/caloric intake, she’s doing what the health profession has told her to do. In fact, she’s never been told to cut out sugar…just the opposite. Have X number of carbs/day, if her blood sugar starts to drop, have a piece of hard candy in her purse to counter act it. So she doesn’t continue to eat sugar because she’s addicted to it. She continues to eat it because she’s been told it’s ok. She’s never been told that she could reverse her T2D by cutting out carbs.

When I first started eating a ketogenic diet, her response was “Well, I don’t think it’s necessary. You know it’s all about the calories you eat and if you cut back on calories, you’ll lose weight.” I didn’t bother to re-educate her…she’s had 50 yrs of being told a certain thing by the medical profession so isn’t going to believe what I tell her.

So maybe the seriousness isn’t so much about a sugar addiction, but a society that’s seriously misinformed and mis-led. Sure, sugar fires those pleasure centers, but for the average person, where’s the incentive to give that up when we’re told it’s OK to eat sugar? When eating sugar is easier and cheaper than eating “real” food?

I’m a relatively intelligent person. I try to stay informed. Double majored in biology and chemistry, went post grad in Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics. Until I read Dr. Fung’s books, I didn’t even realize just how bad my ONE glass of sweet tea, that I sipped on all day long, was. So was it my sugar addiction or craving that was the problem? Not really…it was my lack of education about it and in some ways, that wasn’t really my fault. Now I know better and I don’t drink sweet tea.


(Cindy) #22

@Don_Q, I wanted to further explain. It’s not that I don’t think sugar addiction exists. I’m sure it does. But pointing to the rise of T2D in relationship to sugar addiction, to me, blames the victim. As in, people get T2D, get fat, etc, because they can’t/won’t give up sugar. I think there’s a small subset of people for which that’s true, but for many, it’s not.

I think of it like the tobacco industry. For years, smoking was cool, smoking was the “thing” to do. But when the studies and industry finally started showing/admitting how detrimental it was, many, many people quit. Yes, some suffered true addictions and couldn’t stop. For some (like my mom), it was a habit and a craving and she stopped relatively easily once she was told (by medical professionals) how bad it was. Was it her “fault” for smoking all those years earlier? I don’t think so, any more than it was a parent’s fault for giving whisky to a baby for teething pain, letting us stand up in the back seat of the car, etc…it’s all about the information available at the time.


(Windmill Tilter) #23

All fair points. Personally, I’ve never craved something I wasn’t addicted to. I’ve never had a hard time quitting something that I wasn’t addicted to either. Everybody is different though. Lord knows I’m a long way from being normal. :slight_smile:

Just my two cents.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #24

I greatly appreciate your point, but it bears noting that, for some people, sugar (or at least the fructose part of it) is just as addictive as alcohol. It also damages the liver in the same ways as alcohol does (it lacks only the short-term toxicity). Not everyone who is addicted to one substance is also addicted to the other, but there is significant overlap of the two populations, and the same percentage of the population is estimated to be vulnerable (around 20%). So if you should ever happen to decide that your cravings for sugar did rise to the level of addiction, you would certainly be in good company. I don’t wish that on your for an instant, however.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #25

Only about 20% of the population actually becomes addicted to fructose, they estimate; the estimate for ethyl alcohol is the same. There is a lot of overlap between sugar addicts and alcholics, because the two chemicals are metabolize by the same pathway in the liver, but the overlap is far from 100% (or that’s my impression, anyway.

FWIW, my impression, from my recovering addict friends is that heroin is the worst of the narcotics to kick, far worse than alcohol. And my impression from my recovering heroin addict friends is that nicotine is far harder to kick than heroin.

ETA, caught up on the later posts, and I see you folks understand. But it was worth setting it all out, anyway.


(Mother of Puppies ) #26

Yeah. Sounds pretty serious.

I would say that sugar addiction is the most serious. I’ve seen blindness, amputations, edema, kidney failure, heart disease, strokes, and cancers as a result of sugar, and they still. don’t. stop.

It’s taken me two years of effort to even believe I could go without sugar, even in the face of horrible symptoms of kidney disease.

A heroin overdose looks quick and painless by comparison.


(John) #27

The only true addiction I ever kicked was nicotine. I was a user for like 17 years. I tried many ways but the only thing that worked for me was cold-turkey, with a massive application of willpower for several weeks. It was Not Easy. Also, I knew I required and still require total abstinence. Quit since 1993.

Also - as a side effect, I ate more. I have never been both thin, and nicotine-free.

Alcohol I can take or leave. I have gone through periods of being a frequent drinker, to totally abstaining for years at a time. Which I am glad of, because I enjoy drinking and would hate to not be able to have a glass or two of wine or bourbon every so often.

So I don’t think I was truly addicted to sugar. Clearly not, because I quit it overnight 5 months ago, and other than the normal carb-withdrawals (keto flu) had no special symptoms. I was just habituated to the pleasure sensations of eating foods made with it.

But I decided to act as though I was addicted to it, because for me, having a mental RULE of total abstinence works better than a rule that says “all things in moderation.”

I know this because I was doing really, really well about 10 years ago. I was eating healthy (not low-carb but otherwise good foods in moderate quantities), had lost a lot of weight, and was exercising regularly. But around Halloween, everyone was bringing in candy at work and there were bowls of it around the office. So sure, one little piece now and again wouldn’t hurt. And then a few more. And of course then the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays rolled around, and I went off course even further. Multi-year slide began which I am just now reversing.

So I know how slippery that slope can be from personal experience. It’s not an actual addiction, but if I pretend it is, things work out better.


(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #28

To the OP, I use 100% Baker’s Chocolate bars if I want chocolate. It’s to bitter for me to overdo it and I can appreciate the benefits cocoa can offer so I have a little here and there.

When I quit opiates, which rewarded the dopamine centers in my brain, I used sugar as a weak replacement and gained a lot of weight. Was I addicted to sugar? I don’t know but I was addicted to the feeling it gave me. Like drugs, I feel like quitting cold turkey was the way for me to go but unlike drugs I know I can partake in sugar and then stop immediately after. I agree, sugar addiction exists, but deciding if a person has it should be up to that person.

Like John, I’m treating sugar as an addiction and doing my best to keep it out of my life.


(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #29

Keto sweets are a crap idea. The idea is to cure your sweet tooth. You don’t get there while chowing down on sugar alcohol fake cakes and such.

Eat real foods.

PS- Every study that says dark chocolate is a health food was paid for by a company that sells chocolate. I’m not saying it’s all false, I’m just saying it’s inherently conflicted.


#30

@LeCheffre

giphy

Keto is all about n=1 not preaching in absolutes. Some people function perfectly fine in keto indulging their sweet tooth once in a while. You do you etc etc


(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #31

Most things are. I’m not surprised.


(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #32

Sure. You do you. I’ll enjoy my results and explain my thoughts on why I have them. Maybe that was stronger than warranted. But my opinion is always my own.


(Cindy) #33

Thankfully, I haven’t gone down the trail of a lot of baked keto sweets. For me, it’s that last little bit of sweetener in my tea…and even now, my tea really isn’t sweet, just enough to not be totally UNsweet. I’ve tried a couple pre-packaged things and although I can eat them if I’m really being tempted by something a lot worse, they’ll never be something that derails me.


(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #34

I’m as pure as the driven slush on this issue when it comes to coffee.

Yeah, packaged “keto” baked goods will never woo me. OTOH, Rebel Creamery might.


(charlie3) #35

May I propose a definition of the word addiction? How about unhealthy dependence? A baby is utterly dependent on it’s parents but that’s healthy. It would be silly to call that addiction. I’m one of the lucky ones with alcohol. I can savor quality spirits but am indifferent. I think the last time I drank alcohol was 2 years ago. Some people elevate their dependence on alcohol to an unhealthy level.


(Jeremiah) #36

Arguing semantics I’m sure, addiction is different for everyone but here is the official definition:

Addiction: An inability to stop doing or using something, especially something harmful.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/addiction

I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to say someone is “belittling” heroin addiction by saying they can be addicted to sugar or food. I have family who not only were addicted to opiates but died as a result, and I don’t believe I am belittling them for saying I was addicted to sugar\carbs. In fact I was headed for an early grave with my addiction to carbs, I’m certain if they are watching me now they are happy I found a way out and can live my life better off, rather than feeling I’m belittling the addiction they had before they passed.

Anyways, this is a keto forum, it’s getting too serious in here. If you can do sweet fixes and still be healthy go for it, if you do sweet fixes but find you can’t make headway to your own goals then consider why. Everyone has a different path to walk, as long as you get to where YOU want to go that’s all that matters in the end.


(Sharon) #37

I too am a sugar addict, recovering alcoholic, ex smoker. I called it a “sweet tooth” for years, I joined a couple facebook groups just to get off sugar. Took a month. then went to low carb then keto and now canivore. I have had to avoid most of the keto sweets stuff to get to a point of no longer craving sweets. I have a few fat bombs in the freezer, but forget they are even there. I know if I do even the keto treats I just keep all that craving alive. And to be honest I rarely even think about sweets anymore, and I use to live for dessert. Once I saw the “sweet tooth” as an actual addiction, I realized “been there done that” and I know it will not improve so I might as well get use to it and let go of the sugar for good.


(Cindy) #38

Jeremiah, I didn’t mean it that way. If someone has a carb/sugar addiction, then by all means, use the term addiction. It can certainly ruin your life and ultimately kill you.

I was trying to differentiate between carb cravings and addiction. Many people will say they’re addicted to carbs when they’re just craving them…nothing as strong as an addiction.

I tend to think that words/language matters in the language we use in our own head. If I tell myself I’m addicted to carbs, then I might have more trouble not eating them. Then, again, if I truly am addicted, then acknowledging and using the term, is important, too (so I’m not deluding myself). So it just depends on the situation and person. But it’s like when someone says “I’m starving!” when really, they’re just hungry. Starving implies something much worse than just being hungry.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #39

Speaking for myself, I just really, really, really, really, really, really like sugar, and I can quit any time I want. So there! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, wear it to meetings. :smile:


(Brian) #40

LOL!! I like that one. :smiley: