So … I spent five days without eating any dairy, and the only reason I was doing this was to see if it would help with my roseaca - I recently stopped taking my efracea. What I found was the lack of dairy virtually made no difference at all, but caused carb cravings, so I reinstated dairy and today having had a cheesy 3-egg omelette with bacon which I fried in butter for breakfast followed one hour later by a delicious coffee with cream, I am craving absolutely nothing at all. No nuts, no berries, no fruit, no dark chocolate. So it’s clear to me that a diet predominantly consisting of meat, fish and dairy will lead to fewer carb cravings. Sufficient amount of saturated fats also appears to lead to less hunger, and eating more plant-based foods does the exact opposite. I’m not saying either is more healthy than the other, but it is interesting how my body seems to mostly want bacon, beef, pork and cheese. Perhaps what I will do as an experiment is eat like a carnivore on some days, when my body requests it, and give it some plant-based nourishment on days when it appears to want that. If the ability to digest plant-based foods are never lost as some have claimed and others have disputed, then I don’t see what the danger could be.
In all honesty, five days is nowhere near long enough to eliminate a suspected intolerance from your diet. It needs to be at least 30 days, ideally 60, to give your body the chance to properly respond. You have to do what works best for you, but if you seriously want to work out what your body can and cannot tolerate, this needs to be kept in mind.
Did you up other fat intake when you dumped the dairy? Sounds more like when ya dumped dairy you took out some good fat your body was wanting.
Ketovore menu is a good one if you tolerate it well. Heavy meat and only carnivore days if wanted and then have some other things but have ya ever read this:
never saying you can’t do well on some veg in your life what I am saying is that specific veg can easily effect each of us differently but knowing what that fruit/nut/seed/grain can do is kinda an indicator of where us as individuals might set in ya know. Kinda like one can eat all the lettuce in the world and feel wonderful, another eats it and it goes right thru them and off to the bathroom they run. So like Allie said above you need a longer experiment and if you ‘feel cravings’ off dairy I would definitely increase fat intake.
Never anything wrong with experimenting on yourself. This is how we each find our best sweet spot to eat and what works best in our own bodies. Good Luck!!!
Hi, thank you for your reply. I do find there’s so much conflicting information regarding keto and carnivore versus plant-based, and, having lived with chronic inflammation for many years, sometimes I’m left outright frustrated wondering what I can eat. I do know my body craves fatty bacon and pork and beef, and that it is becoming more of a carnivore when I eat those foods to satiety. Then it doesn’t appear to want anything else. But then my mind begins to whisper the word variety again. And perhaps the problem is I’ve read too much science of late, and my head has got all in a muddle. It may be it’s not the dairy that is making the carb cravings go away, but the increase of fats, as you suggest. I might experiment further and take out the cheese again, but leave the cream, which is predominantly fat, and the butter, for cooking. I did buy extra virgin olive oil but it really hasn’t appealed to me. I only used the cheese today to spice up my omelette. I felt no desire to actually snack on cheese so I could easily give it up again.
It might be wise to listen to it, then.
Unfortunately, Western medicine takes the position that we can easily out-think two million years of evolution, on the basis of incomplete data and unverified associations from epidemiological studies. Not to mention all the commercial or ideological forces trying to push us in one direction or another, for reasons that have nothing to do with science at all.
yes I feel ya on conflicting info which is why after ya do read something most one can do is ‘then experiment’ wtih the actual food in your body LOL
See carnivore was ‘the original elimination menu’. In that beef and water and take out everything…just eat beef and water for 30 days at least, usually 90 is recommended, but many people can’t do that but even in the 30 days the minute you add back anything different, if you only add back 1 item, then ya see how you do on it. Key being many long term carnivores like me can’t add back. So we stay on the lifestyle but many ‘use carnivore’ for its’ elimination menu concept and can walk backward a bit adding this or that if they do well and feel fine.
so it is just so individual on where we land but only thru experimenting a bit can we know.
reading on how plants do effect our bodies and the toxicity of them is good info to know plus it shows what kind of effects to look for in us on how they effect the body.
like tea. I drank tea on carnivore. did well on it for about a yr or so til one day…whammo…those tannins in tea made my mouth go numb like, tingly kinda and I did not like that feeling in my mouth and into my throat. read up on tannins, they dry ya out and effect your body but my body didn’t react much until that one day, the one day my body was so much cleaner and healthier when it showed me, hey, this is now effecting you…dump it and I did and never drank any tea ever again and won’t.
how we dump toxins from our bodies and how long on a cleaner eating plan can then show us differences in our food later down the line too.
So time seeing how well ya do…time on plan and if changes happen again, re-evaluate etc. and ya got this! You will find your sweet spot for sure.
Like when I started zc I ate all the fatty burger meat. Yum. About into year 2 I had to dump that fatty burger meat. rendered fat from burger just sets my guts bad now and I eat only 85/15 or 90/10 burger meat. Old days sucking down the 70/30 or 80/20 LOL So we just have to bob and weave and let the body show us alot I guess. We listen we adapt and change it up and hang in there!
I’ve been an avid green tea drinker for years. I used to drink up to 6 cups of it but have cut it down to 3. Sometimes I have only 2. Green tea and my dark chocolate are my two fiercest addictions. As to experimentation, I am all for it. Unfortunately I was born impatient lol, and find it really hard to play the long game. And in the past I’ve chopped and changed things and never really got to the bottom of anything. But the way I see it cutting out sugar, gluten and processed foods is still a major improvement, and it’s going to take a long time, possibly that particular journey never really ends, to discover what the body is truly happy with.
It’s not conflicting facts, it’s simply different experiences. YOUR body is the decider. So experiment away, as long as you are low carb. Being impatient will only cause frustration for yourself.
oh yea aren’t we all HA HA
I learned thru the yrs the short game can give massive results but unless you hunker down for the long game strategy the short game never wins. It wins til ya gain all ya lost back and then some and come out worse then when ya started So get ya tho!!!
I’ve quit dairy for a month at a time – no difference when I start back up. At all.
You are right of course. I do realise being impatient is a silly thing, especially considering I’ve only done keto for about a month. It’s been quite a change, from very high carb to very low carb, but the body doesn’t seem to mind, and it’s enjoying the new food. But I find the only two foods that are wholly satisfying to be dairy and meat. So more often than not my body will request a cheesy omelette, a plate of bacon rashers and a coffee with cream. For lunch I might have a couple of beef burgers or a piece of gammon joint, and two pork chops or chicken thighs for dinner. I could very easily go carnivore. On some days I absolutely feel like doing just that. But this week I had fish and shellfish on the menu as well to add variation. Next week’s menu is going to have just dairy, cream and meat, then the next after I’ll add some fish and other seafood and vegetables to the menu again. This way I can still add a variety of foods, but also further experiment and figure out what my body actually prefers.
I am sure you researched your issue but here is a site that says vegetables high in acid, spicy food and more can have effects.
don’t know why that link is so long LOL but it works if ya click on it
Thank you for the link, interesting article. Particularly interesting about the histamine foods as I eat a good portion of them it seems everyday, nuts, avocado and dark chocolate have pretty much been my go to carbs. I’ll have to give up the cheese, this morning I ate a bit of it and didn’t even like it, but in my omelette it tastes great, spices it up. I only spiced up my omelette because I was out of bacon. And the truth is I’m not that fond of eggs so I have to spice them up with something. I think I can get away though with cream in my coffee, once, daily, I’ll see. I am currently having a pretty bad roseaca flare up. Will try and cut out these foods for a while and see if it will help.
Then it probably isn’t inflammatory to you and you can enjoy it without issues. I have a love/hate relationship with dairy, I love that it’s such a handy snack and so versatile and I hate how my skin reacts to it. Also how addictive it is. I’ve had some breakthrough though, in that I no longer want to snack on cheese. But I still use it to spice up my fried eggs or omelette as I’m just not that fond of eggs on their own.
Actually, sometimes it never happens (well of course, there are billions of people, almost anything happens to someone). I am aware it must be pretty rare, hard, a bit (or more, it depends) unhealthy but still possible. With a lots of work afterwards, at least in the case I know. A properly vain and not very messed up (I mean, healthy) person (okay, add a decent energy need too though we have some influence on it) doesn’t let the fat come back. They change their lifestyle before that happens. Vanity can be a wonderful motivator. Too bad I have almost none of it. If it’s beauty or joy and not putting in much effort, I always choose the latter. And that’s why I need to be way more patient than almost anyone else It’s hard to reach all my goals without sacrificing anything. Good thing I am an optimist and stubborn too.
Do you know how lucky you are? I couldn’t even eat meat every month in the first years. I adored fruits and wanted a ton of vegs. I was more determined than now though so I didn’t feel it hard. It merely wasn’t effective, no benefits either (apart from fat adaptation but I don’t lose that off keto either as far as I can tell), how I knew I should still try this harder type of low-carb I don’t know. Well, maybe I do, gut feeling. I rarely have that but it’s strong and true when I have it so I trust it.
You have a great start! It’s understandable to tweak and try, it’s the best approach, maybe not so much in the very beginning but some changes may be good and even needed even then.
Oh you can’t possibly know that without trying it for long I think. Doing it for a week or a month is very, very different for me, for example, I simply can’t do the latter while often find the former very easy. (I don’t do hard things food wise so it must be easy for me to do it.) But maybe you can extrapolate well, it’s possible. But almost no one can be sure when it’s extrapolation.
Do whatever you feel right for now but after saying such things, come and join us in the actual carnivore thread (we have one every month with fun witty names) at some point! I always am interested in the experiences of someone new (or someone old with new experiments). And you seem an extremely positive and nice person so you could even add to that already super cool “nest”.
Nearly 65 percent of dieters return to their pre-dieting weight within three years, according to Gary Foster, Ph.D., clinical director of the Weight and Eating Disorders Program at the University of Pennsylvania.
-------AND THAT IS 3 yrs…most start to re-gain like a few wks or a month after hitting their goals and never even make that 3 yr keep it off mark. Not many can do it, but yes a few can. Hence why there is a gazillion ‘diets’ out there for everyone to try and try and try thru desperation to ‘keep it off’ long term. Why ‘how to diet and eating lifestyle’ change is rampant on this planet.
As I was only 2-3kg heavier on my high carb, low fat diet (55kg) than I am now (52kg) I do believe if I went right back to my old diet not much would change about my weight. My weight naturally fluctuates those 2-3 kgs anyway so in that sense, I’ve probably not changed at all. But I’ve discovered other health benefits from keto. It all depends why someone is on a diet, if they’re doing it to improve certain disorders and conditions or merely to lose weight. I am in the former category more. I do think the motivation might be stronger to stay on track for those who’ve seen serious improvements to their conditions, than those who merely were seeking to lose weight, it’s all very individual and nothing is set in stone. But I believe in following the body’s wishes and just doing what feels right.
^^^ THIS. Some folks forget not all are here to lose weight - most are but not everybody. I definitely started keto to lose 35 lbs and lost 40, ganed back 10 during COVID lockdowns and took off 5 recently, so I am happy with the weight loss maintenance (coming up on 5 years keto).
However, the health benefits are what keep me eating this way as much as maintaining my weight.
Me too except we may need to show our body the right way first. I never evolved on keto and never got benefits beyond fat adaptation until I made a jump to carnivore (just trying it out for a while). But when I show something better to my body, it always gets hooked.
Many people probably don’t have a healthy enough body for it, they need more time while not exactly following their body. That must be tough.
I went keto to lose fat (I felt quite healthy already, of course there is always room for improvement) and it never happened but my body got hooked so I never could go back to my previous low-carb diet for long… I keep tweaking and training until I get the benefits I want. Or I die, maybe it won’t happen ever but I am an optimist. I probably won’t get ALL the benefits I want but some more energy would be nice.
Well done on staying on course for 5 years, that’s impressive. I hope in a year I’ll be as motivated as you and that what I am hoping to achieve, which feels impossible, has to some degree been achieved. So far my main motivation is the clear reduction I’ve experienced in my lipoedema pain, swelling and water-retention. So far I’ve only lost 1 inch off my calves, but my boots are fitting loser, and I used to struggle to zip them up. Also, I seem to have fewer bruises on my legs, and the skin there appears firmer as well. So … In terms of my goal to treat lipoedema through fat-adaptation (which I have estimated a year to reach) as I’m only one month in so far, the results are pretty promising and encouraging.