I reinstated dairy and my carb cravings vanished


great point which is why ALL newbies SHOULD DO a recommended Keto plan on whole foods and should always go into carnivore dumping all plants. AND commit to the time to change.

Nothing comes fast or easy but commitment to change and do a plan one tackles has to happen or none of the other benefits come…very true on that one S!

you are right, WE MUST show the body that real changes can happen as it repairs/heals and detoxes and adapts thru the ‘new plan’ we choose to tackle and after that…oh yea listen to that body when our minds are more in control with the help of lower body addictions to sugar.


But it’s also important to note that we’re all different with individual circumstances and medical histories and that one particular diet or WOE does not fit all. I simply don’t believe the answer is the same for every person, to give up plant-based foods on a notion they are harmful. For some people vegetables do, I believe, provide health benefits, and for others, they bring a host of problems. If newbies such as myself find the keto WOE more sustainable by not restricting plant-foods and that feels right, then this is surely healthier than going so strict that any initial interest and motivation gradually wanes. And things can always be tweaked along the way.

(Bob M) #23

Been keto since 1/1/14. Which has given me plenty of time to try:

  • high fat, lower protein (multiple times)
  • high protein, lower fat (multiple times)
  • 1+ years of CGM
  • Thousands of blood sugar and ketone tests
  • Different fasting protocols from OMAD to 5.5 days
  • Quitting and restarting dairy multiple times
  • Changing the type of dairy (A1/A2 protein, raw)
  • Resistant starch + probiotics
  • Just probiotics
  • Fermented dairy/fermented foods
  • So many vitamins, minerals, supplements, etc.

It can take some time to figure out what works. I’m still trying things.


agree on that, but tweak should come later than sooner as we ‘give that plan’ time to show us stuff. If we don’t give the body heal/repair and change up metabolism time and handle horomone balances thru ‘just the basic concept of the plan’ we are using then nothing ever comes to tell us real truths.

Like eat Keto plan but one relies heavily on keto fake sweetner desserts that are working against them but ‘hey it is Keto’ ya know as offered out there…or go LC but how low does one need to go? Only with time trying any plan can one direct that way forward.

How many do the ‘been on a Keto diet’ for a week but ‘must have’ a ‘cheat week day on the weekend’ and wonder why they are not progressing so fast as the plan said ya would?

newbies gotta go all in and hang and when a ‘newbie’ like me in the old days finally says ‘enough BS is enough’ I learned that one must commit all in and fight the crazy while changing…took me a darn long time to learn just that …ugh… :wink:

never tweak before one is set on the guidelines of that plan and finds better results and changes. Tweaks are for those later in that ‘done the work and body more healed’ and now it is tweak time to fine tune it down to who we are kinda is my thoughts on it.

for me personally I found fighting like hell came first, some tweaking came way down the line :wink: when the body showed me massive changes and I knew I had that right path, now I had to tweak for me and that is how we find each of us on the path.


where does the croissant fall in line there LOL
joking but yes, time in this game is key to learning us and not a doubt about that one :slight_smile:
I also think if one ‘feels safer’ and doing well to ‘go too rouge’ into any direction is a bad call…not sayin’ this is you at all’…just saying to all keep ‘body feeling’ the correct way forward.

We know for sure the ‘I did not lose 3 lbs this week, I am not gonna eat cabbage soup for a week or force fast for 10 days’ and OHHHH we go off the rails. brain games on dieting are horrifying to say the least.

just thinking do the plan ya wanna do but DO it to see changes before one ever tweaks. No tweaks mean nothing without real longer term benefits form the plan one chooses.

yea I had to deal with this crap also LOL made for like 2 into 3 yrs of crazy for me on ‘lc’ ways :slight_smile:

(Allie) #26

It’s an ongoing process for me too, always trying different things and I’ve been keto since May 2015. The body changes over time and we need to change with it.


YUP! So agree!


I do agree that going too lax on keto is probably not going to reap the most benefits, and might be more of a slippery slope for those particularly fond of carbs. I don’t do smart desserts, just mush a few berries with some nuts and seeds, and maybe some shredded coconut. Or I’ll have a small square of very dark chocolate. Today, however, I just didn’t feel like having much, my dessert was 3 small strawberries and my morning snack was 10 almonds and 3 brazil nuts. I enjoyed some fresh cucumber slices with my chicken nuggets. My total carbohydrate count was 10,8.
So yes, I do agree that if you went keto, but wanted to add in cheat days, fancy keto desserts and so-called keto friendly shop bought snacks and bars, then it might be better to follow a stricter plan to achieve your goals. But to add a few vegetables, berries, nuts and seeds, I couldn’t see this stalling progress, and if you wanted a dessert then to keep it as simple as possible, say, a tiny handful of berries or a small square of chocolate or, perhaps something that could be kept for a weekend, a cup of hot cocoa (raw cocoa powder and creamed coconut), then I couldn’t see that either being too much of a problem. I eat 2-3 meals a day, sometimes I have my dessert of berries and sometimes I just have a few vegetables. But I like the variety, for now. That might all change later.


Very, very true.
And I may want to be as close to carnivore as I comfortably can as my body wants extreme-low net carbs from non-animal sources, apparently - but I still refuse to think that plants harm me. I never felt that and I ate them in huge amounts. They were fine - except they were carby.
Other people may NEED their lots of plant carbs for some reason. Odd that different humans are this very different but apparently this is the case.

I understand plants contain not so great things but many people can handle those well and cutting them out easily could lead to (bigger) problems. Each to their own. Some people may be fine on keto but the way they manage to do it bad for them… But surely some people would feel awful on keto and it wouldn’t change. I met people who had problems on keto even after many months. Maybe they did it wrong, I don’t know. But if they can’t do it right, it’s not for them. Not everyone is willing to tweak for years while suffering and I understand that.


Tweaking is for times when the current method doesn’t seem to work. It may be on the second day too. I surely would never stick to something that feels bad to me. If I realize I need something for some reason as it’s too hard without (and I have no serious health issues to force anything, I am fine with my hedonistic approach), I add it.

I didn’t tweak in the first months myself (as far as I remember) but I had several low-carb years first and had some idea about what I need to pull it off. Definitely tons of keto sweets/desserts (as they aren’t necessarily really sweet), I had them for years. But it’s good to be able to leave them out of most of my days… I probably will eat desserts for decades more but they change with my actual default woe.

There are not many fixed rules as we are just that different. Like fasting on keto. Of course many of us should do IF right away, no matter what people say… It would have been awful or rather impossible for me to force-feed myself (triggering overeating) just because I dropped my carbs. I did IF before keto too - and I probably didn’t even know the term at that point yet. But I can imagine some people automatically do IF when they start keto. It’s fine as long as it doesn’t mean undereating.
We shouldn’t force things under normal circumstances, be it fasting or lack of fasting :wink:


When I was eating a high carb, low fat diet I snacked throughout the day and often ate late meals on top of that. I didn’t know anything about insulin then. Then two things happened at the same time. I was diagnosed with lipoedema, and I discovered keto. The other thing I stumbled over was IF through Dr Jason Fung. I watched several of his videoes on his youtube channel. And have since been teaming keto up with IF. But whereas I began with doing 20:4 I am much more content now with doing and keeping to 16:8, but I still essentially eat 2-3 meals a day, and add in one morning and one afternoon snack. But my eating window usually ends 17:00 and my body seems happy with this. Of course it’s different for everyone, but I do believe as also Dr Fung states, that we are simply not meant to be eating all the time, there also has to be a time for the body to digest and recover.

(Megan) #32

Some people need to or prefer to make changes more gradually because any change needs to be sustainable. So starting out removing certain foods, then other foods later, then more foods later is a very workable way for some people, whereas making a huge change and toughing it out may not be. This is especially true for folks who decide to eat keto or carnivore to lose weight. Folks who are doing it for health reasons may have a lot less wriggle room, depending on how their health issues are affecting them.

I’m surprised it’s that low. I wonder what the percentages are re partial weight gain and percentages of weight gain. Maintenance of weight loss is a huge job, with so many factors potentially screwing it up. I’m really happy I have lost and am continuing to lose weight but keeping it off is where the real celebration will be for me.


good way to think of it to make it work for you.

so agree that many of us find the simpler the better in our food choices.
there are tons of fancy keto meal recipes and keto desserts to cook and bake :slight_smile: but I think alot of us wanna drop the work in cooking and baking and walk a simpler life when it does come to what we eat.

don’t get me wrong, many are fat keto cooks and bakers :slight_smile: but if you do great on a few small items that are so simple, then yea, do you on that one.

sounds liike you will be rolling along just fine!!


Very true. It was plain impossible for me to do it in one jump. I did a pretty big jump when I went low-carb and it was easy and great - but keto was way more difficult (still fine though) even when years passed and I got determined and ready. And carnivore is another world again.
For some of us, it’s a somewhat gradual change or nothing. I only could do an even bigger change than what I did (cutting out sugar, grains and basically all high-carb items? I consider it huge! but it still was way carbier than even my original keto) if it was a life or death situation and I knew my new woe would help.