I need to rant... so i dont go off Keto and binge

(Heather Meyer) #1

Okay im ranting…im talking… i have to or else im going to jump ship into a vat of somthing sweet.
I had a consult with the surgeon and this is the conversation that took place:

me: “im having right sided pain that wraps into mu back and feels like i am having a gallbladder attack all day and i am so nausiated i can only tolerate sugar free jello and chicken broth. I am bed ridden daily and it hurts to walk”.

Surgeon: " well we will do the MRI procedure but i gotta tell you…dont think we will find anything. And i likely will never be able to get down to the cause of your pain. There is likely nothing i can do for you."

me: " so what am i going to do cause i cant even eat?"

Surgeon: “Eat good food…healthy food. Get off all your anti nausea drugs and just eat good food and work on losing weight. That is my only concern. You need to lose weight, see a Therapist and get some support”

Me: “but i cant eat…it makes me sick and in more pain”.

Surgeon: “its likely just in your head… you just need to tell your mind your not nauseous and not sick”.

Ohhhhhhmgggod… i literally want to club him over the head. I get that he is a general surgeon who specializes in wls as well but this is rediculous!!! Of course i need to get my weight down. Of course i am on Keto and have lost 12 pounds(according to there scale with my clothes on and in the evening) in one month. And lost a size in my pants and shirt. I was doing all of this but then October hit and somthing is wrong. I got off Keto…didnt help… Went back on Keto…was good for 2 weeks and the pain and nausea got worse. Ive stayed Keto in spite of it. Clearly i am commited to Keto even though any sane person would be eating saltine crackers BUT i stayed Keto. This pain is not in my head. I literally cant eat. If i walk for more than 10 minutes…i am in pain and i feel nausiated!!! I came to him to get help for my pain and instead he says “i likely cant do anything about your pain but i do want to help you with weight loss”. Arghhhhhhhhhh!!!

So now… i have to wait for an appointment for this MRI to be done and i was told im going to wait at least 6 weeks!!! So that puts me into February…

So what do i do?? I am totally at a loss here… Do i stay Keto for another 6-8 weeks living off sugar free jello and chicken tea? Do i quit and live off crackers and gain weight? I dont know what to do… cause this surgeon doesnt seem to want to help me with my pain and nauses.

Arghhhhhhhh

-end rant

(Susan) #2

I am so sorry that you are having so many health issues and pain, Heather. I don’t know what a good solution will be -since most foods seem to make the pain worse. I am hoping that someone who has some good suggestions will see this thread and offer good ideas.

His condescending attitude and lack of caring is certainly not helpful =(.

#3

Heather, I rarely post here but your situation has led me to respond to your question.
Let me say that I have had my fair share of horrid doctor visits…years of uncontrollable itching and thickening skin. Eventual diagnosis (five years later) was a wheat allergy. At the same discovered I have Hashimoto disease. I was hospitalized for 16 days with severe acute pancreatitis (which I swear had something to do with the wheat as I do not drink) and was fed from a tube for two months. I also suffer chronic idiopathic hives and just came out of an eight month run of head to toe hives. No meds help, docs just shrug their shoulders and run more blood tests. It’s a true mystery.
I do know your mental pain!
You must do the following
Trust the process, this will get fixed
Do not give up, fight, fight and fight
Nutrition is key…what you are eating is not good. You are getting zero nutrition.
Until your surgery the food you eat should not be classified as Keto or non Keto. Do keep to some basic principles…no sugar, no wheat, no bad fat. Can you eat bananas? How about oatmeal…it’s a grain but is generally well tolerated if tummy is upset. Have you tried protein
Drinks or things like Ensure …easy to tolerate protein and vitamin drinks (my mom lived on those when suffering with cancer).

Those are just thoughts. I honestly wish you well. Keep up the fight.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #4

I’m sorry you are having so much trouble.
Some thoughts…
Can you get a 2nd opinion?
Can you (affordably) go to the ER and make them give you an MRI?

The symptoms sounds acute enough that they shouldn’t be ignored or treatment delayed.

(Heather Meyer) #5

Thank you for your encouragement. I am so sorry you have had to suffer through so much pain. I cant even imagine how difficult chronic long term issues can be.

As far as food goes, i have not tried protein shakes yet. I actually didnt think of trying it. I feel like its this battle…if i eat keto, my nutrition is low because so much makes me feel sick and in pain but if i go off keto, i know i will gain weight because my body doesnt tolerate carbs and sugar. Low calorie alone doesnt seem to help me lose weight or even maintain it. So im feeling divided really… i think i will try a protein shake tommorow and see if that is tolerable. Thank you for the suggestion

#6

Excellent rant Heather.

I’m reading this page on oxalate dumping symptoms: http://oxvox.com/oxalate-dumping-symptoms-what-to-expect/

In the body of the text is a reference to a “honeymoon” period that can be experienced when eating a low oxalate diet (LOD). After which there can be the shedding of oxalic acid from the body and create a variety of symptoms.

I don’t know if your keto eating has also been low oxalate but it certainly can be. Carnivore diet is definitely low oxalate. But a keto diet that contains almonds, spinach, tea, coffee, dark chocolate etc, like many do, are actually high oxalate diets. The change between a high oxalate ketogenic diet to a low oxalate carnivorous diet can bring on symptoms of oxalate dumping.

The other thing to consider is just the release of toxins that were stored in body fat. Some toxins such as pesticides are stored in fat, When one loses body fat those toxins are re-released into the blood stream and a feeling of toxicity or intoxication may occur. Because the body fat is lost the toxins float around in the body until the liver can convert them or they get excreted in the bile (to poo), via the kidneys, out through the skin via sweat (not may get out this way), or exhaled through the breath, if they are volatile enough. But mainly they are detoxified in the liver and excreted via urine or faeces.

That right side pain is very interesting to me as I share that symptom. It may not be the same. The way I feel the soreness is like a sudden ‘stitch’ in the side, like when I used to run around too much, or too fast, especially while laughing, as a kid. It’s under or around the bottom of the right rib cage, a bit around toward the back and up over the hip bone. To add further interest I had a kidney stone removed from that side 18 months ago and that kidney stone was mainly calcium oxalate. The right side ache comes and goes.

I’m really interested in this stuff; the release of stored toxins as a person attempts to get healthy by improving what they eat. It sets up a situation where it seems a diet can be to blame for one’s ills (be it carnivore or keto), but it is more the process of healing a body has a tough phase to get through as the body excretes any bad stuff that was initially stored away in haste as a protective measure.

All that may sound like a head spin. But I can empathise with some of your symptoms.

I don’t know how to measure the toxin release. My best guess is through testing urine (organic acid test - need more research for me)

The MRI will be a good idea, especially get a look at your kidneys.

(Heather Meyer) #7

Well… you can always go to the ER. Ive been there already and i was sent off for an ultrasound of my pelvis of all things… The pain is under my ribcage and the Dr i saw thought it was an ovarian cyst.

In total now… i have seen 7 Drs… 5 of them perscribed me anti-nausea drugs and did nothing more than give me a CT scan, an ultrasound and bloodwork. And concluded that because they couldnt see anything, it must be all in my head.
1 Dr believes me and sent me to the Specialist…the one i saw today, who said "its likely all in my head and said “i may never get to the bottom of your pain”. So… im not sure how many second opinions i can get.

As far as MRI goes, they wont do one in the Hospital. You need a referral and you are booked based on need. In some cases, like my friend…she has to wait 2 years. In my case, they are saying 2 months. We only have 2 MRI machines at each hospital…so we only have 4 MRI machines for the whole population of where i live plus 3 other cities. Lot of need but not enough resources.

I feel like i am losing my mind. I feel like im on the point of a nervous breakdown. The pain is real, the nausea is real. Its not in my head. The suffering is real and yet I feel like i am stuck jumping from Dr to Dr and getting fed more medications. I KNOW somthing is wrong but i just havent had the right test to prove it.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #8

I’m sorry. I was just trying to think of possible solutions. I’m so sorry you are having so much trouble with your doctor’s and getting imaging done.

(Heather Meyer) #9

its okay… please dont think my response was angry or anything towards your suggestions.
Our medical care is so messed up here. Everyone thinks we are blessed in canada with free health care BUT the result is an over-taxed system. Too much need…not enough finances…not enough Drs or Nurses …not enough hospital rooms or beds. Its all not enough for the need that we have. Unfortunately even our ER is burdened by people who think a simple cold is worth taking up vuable time for people who have actual problems…

(Heather Meyer) #10

I have heard of oxalates before but havent studied their effects yet…will certainly do some research now that you mentioned it

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #11

Yeah, that happens here in the US as well.

#12

You are not losing your mind. You have questions about pain and they haven’t yet found the answers.

Be as persistent as you can.

For example, ultrasound is unreliable as an imaging technique to identify kidney stones. Even when I had a 6mm diameter kidney stone and lots of abdominal pain that would come and go unpredictably, the senior radiographer did not see it. I gritted my teeth, as the morphine was not working and giving me brain fog, to ask the emergency doctor, to please get the CT scan images looked at again. Because my pain was wave like, rather than constant, I explained to the doctor it was more likely to be ureteral spasm rather than diverticulitis, or peritonitis due to diverticular rupture, or severe IBD. Since the doctor was unsure, that was enough to help, for them go back over the results they had from the tests and imaging. The second time through the CT scan slices they saw the obvious problem (Oops, sorry). And they re-did another urine test, the second time finding the tell tale signs of fresh blood. But, a slight questioning and insistence saved me from gong for exploratory surgery.

Ask them to review your results.

Because you are nauseous, that can be due directly to pain. But if it is associated with food, or the idea of eating, it needs to be worked through from stomach, pancreas, liver, intestinal and kidney. Those would be the key blood markers to look at. Was everything in normal range? And then, if it was, were there any numbers either in high normal or low normal ranges?

The thing about kidney normal numbers is that one kidney can be injured or inflammed and the other kidney normal and the blood results will be normal despite the patient feeling nauseous and unwell.

A blood test at one end compared to a urine test taken at the same time at the other end is really helpful.

Came across this by chance about toxin release with fat loss:

The doctor is partly correct about the experience of pain, possibly. My understanding is that pain without a known diagnosis can be perceived as more severe than pain that has been diagnosed and is re-contextualised mentally as healing process rather than ongoing injury.

#13

Have a look at the link. It came from @VirginiaEdie

(Edith) #14

Have you heard of histamine intolerance? When we have allergies, our body releases histamine which causes the typical allergy symptoms. Then we take antihistamines to stop the symptoms.

There are foods that contain histamine: some fruits and vegetables, meats (especially aged), some types of nuts, wines, fermented food.
An enzyme called Dao (I have forgotten what that stands for) helps break down histamine in the food we eat. Some people, especially middle aged women, can develop a DAO deficiency. The result is all different kinds of reactions including hives, allergy symptoms, digestive problem without actually being allergic to something. The best solution is to avoid histamine containing food.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17490952/

Also, there is a book called Dangerous Grains which is all about gluten intolerance and all the health problems it can caused. You may find that helps in understanding the damage that was done from gluten. (I’m not promoting Amazon, just showing the book and authors.)

(Edith) #15

I hope you and/or your doctors get things figured out. Virtual hug.

#16

sounds kind of like gallstones. they often take a while to discover. can be confusing. but that should be discovered with the ultrasound.

(Daisy) #17

Have you tried bone broth? I know you say you eat chicken broth, but bone broth is different. I would suggest getting away from sugar free jello as the sweeteners used could be exasperating your symptoms. Bone broth could help bridge the gap until you’re able to eat normally again. I’m sorry for the trouble you’re experiencing! I’ve had similar encounters with doctors. Enough that I’ve sworn them off lol

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #18

Also, if you google nonpharmalogical pain management, you may find something that will help with your symptoms while you wait (since you can’t use opiates). Mental fatigue, pain and anxiety can be helped with them. I speak from experience. Best wishes.

(Niki Dealey) #19

Dear “end rant”…how frustrating for you. My heart goes out to your plight especially due to your pain. No fun when we hurt and it is hard to stay motivated. Let me know if I can encourage you in some other way other than with my heartfelt empathy. - - Niki :grinning::grinning:

(Murphy Kismet) #20

Canada, eh?
Sounds like my overgrown mining town of a city where a person would wait two years for a vasectomy, but get it over and done with at a smaller town’s hospital 1.5 hrs away. Go figure.

Yeah, our sick care system is fucked. I refuse to see any doctor, or step foot in any hospital as a patient. I even hate visiting people in hospital. The smells…

I’m afraid to say @PortHardy that you’re on your own. Do your own research and find out what your body needs, or doesn’t need, or is doing.

I’m leaning more and more towards plant-based toxins, ie: oxalates, histamines, salicylates, etc. I’m reading that getting rid of these toxins can come in waves, and they can be… not fun. If it’s too much to hangle, it is suggested adding back some oxalate foods to ease off on the oxalate dump for a while. IOW let your body rest for a bit before the next wave hits.

It’s not fun, but it’s worth it.

Look up Micheala Peterson. She had to go full carnivore to get rid of her sysmptoms. That might be a venue for you as well.

But keep in mind, any diet that removes oxalate-rich foods will have as a
side effect the dumping of such toxins.

It’s about mitigating negative effects while maintaining forward movement in one’s health.