I Keep Coming Back But Never Last… Will This Time Be Different?

#1

I have posted here several times that I am restarting carnivore/zero carb… and then I don’t stick to it. Well, I’m back again, having failed miserably at “regular” keto once again.

I have now been strict carnivore (depending on how you define it - I do use butter for frying and heavy cream in my tea) since October 1. What prompted this was not losing weight on my keto diet, and if fact gaining it, and continuing to struggle with relentless sugar and carb cravings.

I’m realizing I have to be strict carnivore, much as I wish that were not the case. Carbs are like meth to me.

The big source of my resistance to strict carb is: 1) makes it hard to have dinner with friends; and 2) that I very quickly get REALLY sick of eating just meat, fish, and eggs. To the point where even thinking of eating eggs or a piece of chicken will make me feel a little nauseous.

At least, this has happened every other time I’ve tried it. Then I start thinking, what harm could a little salad do, and then I get a dinner invitation and decide to make an exception just tonight so I can eat Indian food, and then…. Before you know it I’m barely keto, much less carnivore.

This time I decided: Even if I do get sick of the foods I can eat on the carnivore diet, if I get hungry enough I will eat them! And, dinner out with friends is less important than my health and well-being around food and my body.

Another barrier is I was getting hassled on this forum for supposedly not eating enough, and so I found myself trying to force feed myself to the point of mild nausea. This time I am just going to trust my body and not try to calorie count or worry that I’m not eating enough. I trust that if I need food, I’ll want to eat it!

So far it has been five days and I’m doing well. Haven’t cheated or even been really tempted. I’ve been eating mainly eggs and chicken (getting the “baked eight” from the grocery store). Having pre-cooked foods in the house makes it easier for me.

My body feels better, cravings come and go but aren’t as insistent, and I’ve even lost of few pounds (no doubt water weight, but it’s encouraging). I am shooting for losing 5 pounds a month for the next three months (have 15 to 20 to lose).

Thanks for listening!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Glad to know that this time around seems to be working for you. Do listen to your body. There can be problems from not eating enough, but if you have to force-feed yourself, that’s a problem, too. There was an overfeeding study sixty or seventy years ago, in which one of the participants famously broke down in tears when they wanted him to eat yet another pork chop.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee, a carnivore in Perth, Australia, says that his guide to hunger is as follows: if it tastes good, you’re hungry; eat it. If it doesn’t taste good, you’re not hungry; put it away for later. I think this is good advice.

I’m not carnivore all that long (though keto since 2017), but I recently got my favourite dish from my favourite restaurant, and it tasted really good–until I took one more bite and wasn’t interested in it anymore. The leftover portion made a tasty lunch the next day.

As a carb addict, I get cravings occasionally. On keto, those cravings would often lead to a carb binge. However, I am finding that on carnivore the cravings are surprisingly easy to resist. It may be from not being hungry most of the time, or perhaps all that meat I’m eating blunts the carb addiction, I don’t know. But I’m finding it surprisingly easy to stick to meat only.

At any rate, keep calm and carnivore on! You’ll be fine.

(Jackie) #3

I’m recently back at this as well. Just wanted to mention that you may be surprised how many restaurants are familiar with and now accommodating a low carb diet…even the fast food joints.
Wishing you well!

(Alec) #4

This is a tough place to be as a carnivore! I have been carni for nearly 2 years now, and I have to say I have not experienced this. I think my only advice would be to compromise a bit and use some sauces and condiments to soften up and change the meat texture and flavour. Are you eating animal fat? Is this easy to eat or really hard? Are you eating enough salt with your meat and eggs?

I think that in general you are wise to say if you aren’t hungry, then not to eat. However, it sounds like you don’t have much spare weight to lose… 15-20 is not much, and may take some time, so don’t be impatient. Good luck and do log in and tell us how you are doing.

#5

I hope so. Not all of us are that lucky…
I can relate to you getting bored of your carni food, I had that a lot in the last years, it was a big reason for me to go off many times (but I had other reasons as well). Eventually it got WAY better. First of all, I learned to eat more meat and boredom doesn’t come so easily. Second, I collected a lot of carnivore dishes, made several own recipes so I have a nice variety to choose from. I always make sure I have quite many different carnivore ingredients, I don’t try to depend on only like, 6 for a meal let alone a day, that is not me, usually and there are 7 days of the week and it would be super boring to eat the same stuff. I eat organs, various animals, eggs, various processed meats (that went down but it never was much but still helped me out a lot. sometimes I eat them with some too lean meat pieces, they help there too), several different dairy items… And I can do very different things from only eggs :wink: Carnivore can offer a great variety. And it’s fine to have lower-meat days if you really need a break. I hardly can do that nowadays (without overeating, meat is just better for satiation) so I keep my pound or rather more meat but I change the animal.
I still go off all the time but it’s fine by me, actually. I come back after a single (quite possibly still keto) day and that’s good enough for me though I aim for longer carni, I will try it in winter!

Good luck!

#6

That is good advice, I do use it when my meat is too lean or dry or boring, works fabulously. Or use a piece of ham or sausage. Or egg so I don’t eat my meat at once but with eggs, sometimes together, sometimes alternating… There are many tips but it may take some time to figure these things out. It’s definitely way better for me now that I am experienced.

If some “sauce” is needed but one wants to stick to carnivore, there are possibilities still… Like butter… Maybe butter mixed with yolk… I often use the fatty jelly thing below my roasts when I reach the leanest pieces (I tend to eat the nicest, fattiest bites first).

(Marianne) #7

When I started carnivore, I was doing the same and fretting that I wasn’t really carnivore because of my dairy (butter, cream, cheese, etc.) consumption. A member here told me that carnivore isn’t confined as just “meat.” Anything that is an unadulterated animal product (like the above), still qualifies. After thinking about it, that made sense to me. Most days/meals are carnivore. Labels shouldn’t mean anything, but still this made me feel better that I was following it correctly.

These days I don’t sweat if I have a few very low carb veggies, like brussels sprouts, cole slaw or a simple salad. I discovered that home made blue cheese dressing (my fave), is very easy to make and better than what you get in the store. The ingredients are clean and it tastes so good. If I feel like a salad, I have one.

When eating out, I stick to steak usually and a salad. I ask them to hold everything else or ask people in my party if they would like any of the sides. Usually, they’re happy to take them. Another option is to order breakfast for lunch or dinner. For me, that’s usually a meat or cheese omelet with no toast.

As someone said, you don’t have much to lose and those last pounds are the ones that come off the slowest. Key is you have to be happy with your way of eating if you want to be able to maintain this long term. You’ll discover what that looks like for you, and you may find it changes back and forth over time. Lastly (I promise!), even if you aren’t losing weight, you will likely find that once you are long term fat adapted and consistent in your diet, your body will reconfigure itself in a really favorable way, even if it doesn’t show on the scale. It did for me.

Good luck and best to you!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

I agree that dairy products are also carnivore. We don’t want whole milk, because of the sugar content (and reduced-fat milks are even worse), but cream and cheese are great. The problem is that not everyone can tolerate them. So whether or not they can be part of your carnivore diet is a very individual thing.

Strictly speaking, coffee and tea are plant products, and so, not carnivore. But there is general agreement that you can drink them and still call yourself a carnivore.

We need to remember, however, that eating a carnivore diet is not a moral imperative, the way vegetarianism and veganism are considered to be. It is merely a way of eating that some people have found keeps them their healthiest. They have no objection in principle to eating plant foods, it’s just that when they do, they suffer for it. So while purity of diet is important for the plant-only folks, we carnivores tend to take a more pragmatic approach: we eat what we can, and don’t eat what we can’t.

#9

If you’ve metabolically slowed down, you won’t be hungry and even normal (correct) amounts of food will feel forced.

Probably another reason you’ll fail. Again, if your RMR is lowered from under eating, correct amounts of food will feel forced. That’s literally the calorie trap. To make it worse, if you’re not tracking you have no clue that you’re not doing that and making it even worse.

If you don’t track, you have no way to troubleshoot, doesn’t matter whether it’s metabolism, fat loss, blood pressure, anything. Can’t fix anything if you don’t know what you’re dealing with.

#10

Here we go again. I haven’t seen this obsession with calorie counting and force feeding in any of the books on carnivore I’ve read, which seem to overwhelmingly recommend eating to satiety.

Well, force feeding did not work the last time I tried it, on the recommendation of people on this forum. Not going to go there again.

#11

Alecmcq: Thank you! I am thinking of using things like no-sugar-added salad dressing on fish and maybe some meats to make them go down easier.

I have never particularly liked the taste of meat, unfortunately. It makes me laugh when I see the huge efforts of the fake meat industry to make plant products taste and feel like meat, thinking that this will make people like me want to buy them.

For me it’s just the opposite - if only they could make a steak that tastes like mashed potatoes! :grinning:

(Robin) #12

First of all… good for you!
Sometimes we need to share our failures to get serious.
Sounds like you know what you’re doing and are definitely motivated.

My one and only suggestion is to eat any meat and all meat that you love. Chicken alone won’t satisfy your body or your mind. And of course, don’t fear the fat.

I’m glad you won’t be weighing yourself this time. DO take your measurements now. They will amaze you down the line.

We already sufficiently hassled you about eating enough. I am still amazed at how many calories I eat now.

I hope you’ll be able to dine out with friends again. Good friends will understand why you’re just getting the steak. They’ll get over it and you can keep your social life. (I never said “keto” or “carnivore” to mine. Just say you’re cutting out sugars and processed foods. Easier to accept.)

Last… there are many addicts on here who overcame many substances…. Alcohol, smoking, pills, etc. Carbs can be another addiction. So yeah… that hard line in the sand is our secret weapon.

Good luck to you.
You got this!

#13

RobinTemplin: Thanks so much! I am one of those who have overcome addictions to alcohol and tobacco. Been off them for about 35 years.

In my experience, I am definitely 100% addicted to carbs. It’s real. In my experience it is a stronger addiction than alcohol, and not quite as tough as tobacco. But it helped that tobacco is increasingly frowned upon (and was even back in the 80s when I quit), whereas you are encouraged to eat carbs everywhere you go. Not that you can’t say no, of course, but the temptation and pressure is very frequent.

#14

Maybe roast your meat bain marie style? And add salt/herbs to taste?

That’s what I’m doing to a whole chicken tonight.
It’ll be posted on Oxen October thread.
It’s lush- the only problem you’ll have is devouring too much in one go (joking, but it is nice!).

More slow cooking too, with a suitable sauce?

(Robin) #15

Sophie, you just described me to a tee.
I no longer crave booze at all. But in a stressful situation, the urge to have a smoke just pops up like an old friend with warm cookies… lolol.

Again, glad you’re here.

#16

Who’s obsessed? Speak for yourself. I also never said to actually force feed, I’m speaking in the context of metabolic slowdown which is incredibly common, if you want to ignore the huge amount of people that have reversed that, got their appetites back and as an effect of that hit their goals, cool. Good Luck :+1:

(Marianne) #17

Paul, as usual, you nailed it! :hugs:

(Marianne) #18

Didn’t know any of this. I am intrigued. Are you saying stick to your macros?

(Marianne) #19

There’s meat and then there’s meat. Please let me know if you have a beautiful ribeye and don’t find that complete delicious. That is completely satisfying to me - and I used to love mashed potatoes more than almost anything else!

#20

Actual, meatbolism slowing starving is definitely not good, I am with @lfod14 with that but I understand force-feeding isn’t good or even realistic for some of us (most of us don’t need it to eat enough, thankfully). When I have a dietary problem, I usually try to solve it through my food choices and sometimes timing, they are quite effective in my case (I still can mess it up regularly but that’s my flaw). Like, eating the right amount, I can control it somewhat through my food choices and timing (when and how many times I eat though my first hunger has a huge impact on my possibilities there). Most of us have less satiating and/or more tempting items. Using more meals may help too if we want to consume more food. But these are individual, just tips that may help you too. May not.

To me, all animal product is carnivore enough. Milk and processed meats all fair game. If I am bored of simple meat dishes, I may even make stews (the Hungarian ones always contain paprika and onion. very very little onion is enough especially when one reaches the state where onion is quite sweet. I dislike sweet meat dishes so a teeny tiny amount is just perfect). Sometimes we eat eggs in purgatory, my SO eats most of the tomato sauce but I do eat a bit. It’s not carnivore, clearly but I barely get some little plant matter and that doesn’t bother my pretty healthy body. I try to stick to carni food when it’s no effort but I need to choose my battles well. So when I need to add something, I start with okay little extras that suits meat so, so well and a little goes a long way.