I gained fat by eating too much fat (taking myself out of maintenance :( )

(hottie turned hag) #61

You’re short like me and your joints can’t handle the weight, so I’d not push exercise until you lose more. Too hard on your joints, see.

(Susan) #62

I am guessing and hoping that as I shed more weight it will all be easier. My youtube low impact aerobics are a good start for me at least =).

#63

I actually was a very timid and quiet child. I always was a hedonist but well, I was usually serious (and quite lonely)! I changed at some point. But I was always excited about the world, so many interesting things to see and smell and hear and taste and learn!

(mole person) #65

I find that as long as I keep it to meat fat I’m fine but if I start letting in other sources of fats like dairy boom, fat accumulation. I can eat a lot of meat fat, but my body gives me strong signals to stop. Not so with cheese etc.

(Susan) #66

I read the carnivore threads a lot, and I think that this seems to be true for many people, Ilana =).

(Karen) #67

I amTweaking my percentage protein and percentage fat on my carb counter today. I am also increasing the calorie consumption. I think I might’ve been eating too few calories. I will be increasing my protein, with the hopes that my body will enjoy the fat I am storing. Wish me luck. I’ll let you know.

(mole person) #69

Yes, this is absolutely true and people tend to hyperfocus on carbs forgetting that it’s because carbs increase insulin that we limit them. But there are other things that can lead to higher insulin such as overconsumption of dairy or protein or non nutritive sweetners. This is why I think testing is important for people that are stalled. It’s simply not true that limiting carbs to 20 net is necessarily sufficient to put you in nutritional ketosis. The rest of the dietary context matters too.

#70

There’s no denying (much as we would like to) that weight loss goals demand restriction, of what is a question that must be answered by our own experimentation. I went through a stressful six month process of remodeling the first part of this year. I decided to adhere to carb limits but to see what happened if I comforted myself at night with whipped cream and 14g of almonds. I started out whipping a 1/4 cup at first and I rapidly crept through the measuring cups to usually pouring out 1/2 to 2/3 cups, and once in awhile whipping up a whole cup of cream.
Interestingly I never gained a pound! however, I didn’t lose any weight either…
The remodel is finished, and I’m only half-way to goal so I found a great app to track macros and am weaning myself off the whipped cream and almonds treat. I’m fat adapted and my body seems to happily burn whatever amounts of fat I give it, but it’s time to dip into the stored reserves.
I find that Keto is a process of continuing revelations and adjustments. The health benefits are absolutely worth the effort and concentration it takes to eat consciously.

(Michael Wolf) #71

I’ll throw in my experience. I can’t eat carbs, so between half-and-half and cream, it’s cream every day. But that doesn’t mean infinite cream! If I have four coffees, each with 1/4c cream, I just had a cup of cream! Eating Rebel ice cream is like chugging cream. Hell, why talk about carbs and fat and not protein: having 400g of protein shake is no good either.

Since I’m low carb and moderate protein, I eat higher fat compared to SAD, but I don’t drink quarts of cream or eat bags of macadamia nuts (unless I’m binging). How about just meals of a good protein source that’s pretty fatty. 75% ground beef with the drippings. Ribeye with a little butter. A piece of salmon (yes, a fatty fish, but still not very fatty) with a decent amount of avocado. Bacon, and the eggs cooked in the bacon lard, maybe focusing more on the yolks than the whites. Because I’m so low carb, I need a little extra fat to make up for the missing carbs. And I can probably get a way with a little extra fat beyond that. But at some point it’s just too much.

Going low-carb and low-fat means too much protein … or starvation. That’s the worst of all worlds.

Would I make myself huge by drinking a quart of cream every day? Of course. That may be keto by the letter of the law, but the spirit is to eat real food. Rebel Ice Cream may be 100x better than Haggen Dasz for the waistline, but it’s not real food and if you eat it by the pint, you’ll get huge also. Some people may be lucky enough to get away with it, but not most of us here …

(Bob M) #72

This is not supported by scientific evidence:

Our findings suggest that dairy intake, especially low-fat dairy products, has a beneficial effect on HOMA-IR, waist circumference, and body weight. This could impact dietary recommendations to reduce DM risk.

Dairy consumption was inversely associated with the incidence of all IRS [insulin resistance syndrome] components among individuals who were overweight (body mass index ≥25 kg/m2) at baseline but not among leaner individuals (body mass index <25 kg/m2).

The problem with “dairy” is that it’s undefined. You could be eating nothing but 6+ month fermented cheese from raw milk (which is what I eat a lot of), or guzzling a gallon of cream per day. And whey has a much higher insulin effect than casein.

For a nuanced opinion:

#73

There’s a lot of Keto people who say once they stop eating cheese and nuts the last 15 pounds come off quickly. Eggs, cheese, dairy, and nuts have often been the top foods to omit on allergy and inflammation elimination diets.

As far as fat content goes, it harkens back to Paleolithic man, being forefront in ancient diets of fats, bone marrow and meats, it was a game changer for human development and longevity.

In Hungary right now, there’s a clinic that claims Autoimmune healing of many diseases including Diabetes with this model of diet, and it’s the fats that heal. It’s called Paleo Mendicina and they’ve published medical journals on some of their cases documenting the healing with a 2:1 fat to protein ratio of Keto Carnivore eating.

For me, it was too much fat to lose significant weight, but combined with intermittent fasting it’s even better. So now, I’m cutting some of the high fat % to see what the balance point is for me. There are case studies showing how meats only will make one lose weight depending on fat content. There’s even a condition called “rabbit starvation” that can develop if you only eat lean meats and don’t get enough fat for a long period of time. So there’s a balance.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/all-meat-diet

https://www.paleomedicina.com/en

https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/my_change_to_a_meat_based_diet

#74

update… I’m back down to 128 again (was 125-126 a few months ago). If I lost 2-3 lbs that fast then maybe it really wasn’t fat after all. lol… I’m not a scientist. So anyway my jeans are feeling much better on me though.

But yeah… clearly I need to stick to meat, substantial protein… and not pile on a bunch of extra fat.

(Susan) #75

That is terrific, congrats =).

(Edith) #76

This podcast with Dr. Ted Naiman is really
Interesting. At the 1:00:00 to 1:15:00 Mark he starts talking about the causes of insulin resistance and how eating too much fat can cause us to store more fat.

Maybe you will find it useful.

#77

I’ve been eating simple keto for the past few days - bone broth, eggs, meat, butter, evoo, lettuce and assorted veggies (sauerkraut, radishes, avocado, cabbage, cucumber). I add 1 tbsp of EVOO to my salad, 15g of butter to my scramble and 20g of our “ocvirki” (the fatty pork rinds) to sauerkraut. I’m averaging about 10g of total carbs, 110g of protein and about 80g of fat. I have ben feeling pretty good on this ratio, I lost about 2-3 pounds, as well, feeling full after my OMAD and not hungry throughout the day. I’ll see how my body will feel in two weeks when my period comes and I do more of a carnivore week a la Ilana Rose.

#78

This whole discussion has been great. I have been following what some would call a “dirty carnivore” approach, with fasting, and limited use of non-meat items, but pretty much “carnivore adjacent” for the last 6 months.

Years ago I began my loss journey as a straight up keto person who followed generic Atkins and then embraced eating lots of fat, including Bulletproof coffee.I sure did lose a lot at that time, but eventually I realized that drinking loads of fat in my coffee was stalling me. I even gained some weight. I would also eat a large quantity of fatty meat. In any case, I was stuck 30lbs ago for a while in this fatty meat and BP coffee phase. I was also a big follower of Jimmy Moore’s show. For those of you who know Jimmy Moore (no offense Jimmy), I couldn’t help but make the connection between Jimmy Moore eating loads of various fat bombs and unlimited fat, and Jimmy basically becoming hugely obese again.

At this time I also learned about Dr. Fung. Stopping the extra fatty meats and BP coffee and also fasting (IF and TRE) with Dr Fung and Megan Ramos’ protocols helped me make more progress. I’m still fasting (sometimes more successfully than others).

I have been stalled for a while about 15lbs from my goal, but I had the luck to start following @ted.naiman closely recently. Definitely worth considering Ted’s analysis of P:E ratio. Also, if you like science, he is very good at explaining the mechanisms with good charts and graphics. If you combine Fung on fasting and insulin and Naiman on macronutrients and protein you get the whole picture.

Ted’s argument is that aspects of low fat diet land are essentially accurate in addition to low carb ideology. What lots of low carb/keto people consider a typical meal, with a P:E ratio of around .8-1, he considers pretty good “maintenance food” if not good for hunter-gatherer with high activity level. Over 1-5 P.E. is ideal-- think lean pork, steak, shrimp etc. He also thinks that carnivore is a fairly good option, as long as we work out and don’t eat low PE meats like hot dogs etc (Like some people on this this thread said).

Following his analysis of how fat storage works metabolically (too much carb and glucose gets stored as fat and too much fat also stored as fat!), I have started focusing on eating more lean cuts of meat and cutting out cheese and dairy entirely (dairy items have a way of sneaking back in and are addictive to me). I am also trying to be aware of eating “keto” foods that have a P:E ratio of less than 1. It’s not that hard to make this modification.

Interestingly, I’ve been doing this since last week and I don’t notice much difference in terms of satiation except that I feel less overwhelmingly satiated than when I eat very fatty meats and cheeses. It’s more like being full.

Anyway, I think that there is a dogma in the keto community that eating tons of fat is okay. I totally think this may be true, especially for early stage ketoers losing the first 30 lbs and maybe it’s true for people who are in total maintenance. Eat fat! But I think some of us who started off that way and lost so much weight at first find the proposition of going lower fat hard to stomach (no pun intended). I think @CaptainKirk also discovered this (right Kirk?), but it might be right to cut back on the fat and boost the protein proportionally.

Anyway, Ted Naiman’s perfective is that you can eat satiating fat along with protein, but protein has to be the satiating agent in biologically appropriate ratios and this sort of ketosis is really the best fat burning solution. Eating keto is not necessarily ingesting large quantities of fat above protein.

Ted’s website has a lot of info, https://burnfatnotsugar.com and a new book out.

If this works for me in my stall, high P.E. plus fasting (and Ted has convinced me to get off my lazy bum and work out again with HIIT routines), I’ll report back here. So for now, I’m eating less fat, more protein, and still almost no carbs.

(Kirk Wolak) #79

@MTullius I do concur.
In the beginning, calories don’t matter, because the machine is broken.
As I hit my goal weight in APRIL, I fell apart from eating too much Pork Fat (it became inflammatory). As you are closer to your goal the disruptors have MORE impact!

Calories become more important as your body becomes healthier. Allergens/disruptors become more important.

And I will ad my own experiences for what they are worth. I air fried BEEF Fat (OMG, a new favorite food) to compensate for cutting out MOST of my pork. I tried eating JUST the fat after a 48 hour fast.

I got full. But a weird full. I was still “Nutrient Seeking”. I ended up THINKING I was done eating, and proud of myself. Until I was HUNTING for protein. Once I got a decent load of protein in. It all turned off.

So, the saity I got from Fat was like “enough”… Whereas when I try to overeat protein I get that “Nausea” feeling.

I’ve read some of his stuff, I am going to listen to it now.

That said. The absolute truth is that GETTING STARTED is easy… It’s like getting on the surf board and paddling out. Once you are out there… Boy does the complexity start ramping up (which wave, stand up, timing, staying in)… And every wave is different, yet the same…

So I accept that when I tell someone to enjoy the fat as they get started… I know this is the beginner version. And later on, we will have to talk…

Day 4 of a 6 day fast for me. Ketones were like 4.3 a while ago!!! That feeling I could fast forever… Something tells me that Thursday wont be this easy… And Friday I will be eating… Plenty of Protein!

(hottie turned hag) #80

My experience bears this out (worked at the beginning, stopped working when close to goal).

This is exactly how it went with me.

When I was fat, I ate a ton and a ton of fat and lost fast. Got to 122 then stalled though I’d changed NOTHING.

I posted more detailed version somewhere above; now at 115 (last time I weighed which was over a month ago) and reducing cals via some carb reintro via apples, sweet potatoes and CarbMaster yogurt and I’m smaller (will weigh in a few weeks to verify), either have lost more or have some recomposition but at this size visual loss is obvious and I am definitely, smaller.

I wish I could still eat 5lb mozz/week and lots o’veg and deli meat like I did for the first two years or so; I miss that mozz like crazy but after another stall at 115 for months I had to switch up again (which I hate doing, SO annoying).

(NadjaSchlabitzFlanaganCatano) #82

Agree with Momof5. I posted about stalled weight gain back in July, and it’s been 116 days off of fake sugars–as a sugar addict, my body reacts to this, and my intake had been increasing. Now, the scales have not shown it yet, but more than one person has commented on how it appears I’ve lost weight in these past few months. Not the fat, it’s the fake sugars.
My 2 cents.

(Karen) #83

Yesterday was my first day without heavy whipping cream in my coffee. I did use some coconut cream. I was trying to see if I liked it, and if I can get off dairy. Nadja- What sweeteners were you using? And how much? I add sweeteners to my coffee.