I. Am. So. Frustrated!

[gatita]

Long story short…I’ve started tracking everything again, so I can identify if there are issues with the “inputs.” I just hope that one day I don’t have to be a slave to it.

I’m with you on this… what I just started doing now is tracking twice a week on random days to make sure I’m being honest with myself. Once on an IF day and once on a regular day. I think that and ketone measurement gives me a good enough idea.

[KetoLikeaLady]

This is an extremely tight bump (if you even want to call it that). You appear to be well under 100 mg/dl throughout, of course, so this meal likely has very, very little impact on your insulin.

Can you help me understand the relationship between BG readings and insulin? If BG goes up, does that mean insulin is going up? I know that Carl and Richard talk about this but in his blood glucose charting article, he mentioned something about there also being an inverse relationship. I’d love some clarity (sometimes I get lost in the science talk).

Also, it’s possible that even though insulin is affected (not by this meal specifically), you may not see a change in BG? In Jason Fung’s Obesity Code he talks about Stevia being able to affect insulin, but not BG, for example. (I’ve stopped using Stevia for this reason.)

[Lueloff]

if BG goes up - you produce insulin to deal with it. Not much of a rise - not much insulin is released!
And if I understand the insulin response - if you eat something and your BG goes DOWN - and not up at all - that means that the food you ate prompted an insulin release (but didn’t affect your BG)

This is how I understand it, anyway - someone else may have a better explanation.

[KetoLikeaLady]

Does anyone have any concept of an idea of how much fat/calories is in the roasting juices of a whole chicken? Like a dumb dumb, I threw away the bones, but I saved the juices. I had a quarter cup but have no idea what to log. I assume it’s all fat, no carbs or protein.

[jamestorie]

This is my understanding as well.

[KetoLikeaLady]

Today was a weird day, mainly because I ate breakfast after I got home from the blood draw. I intended to skip lunch but ended up having a snack. …That left me with no room for protein at dinner, so I decided to have a little bit and just keep it under 1.5g/LBM. I’m finding it extremely difficult to keep my protein at 44g. I think in order to keep my protein that low, I’ll have to move to a 20:4 IF schedule. I know @Richard did that protein experiment where he ate the minimum recommendation. Richard, did you eat only one meal or in a very small eating window in order to keep it at such a low level?

I was thinking about trying the steak challenge for a week, but I don’t think it would work since my protein allotment is so low. Without any additional foods, my calories would be super low. Or wait…@Brenda, did you ignore protein recommendations (1-1.5g/LBM) during the challenge?

Also, interestingly, my BG was about 70-75 all day and my ketones were high, 1.9 at just 12 hours fasted. I meant to test after my workout, but forgot. (womp womp)

Today’s macros:
1,644 Cal / 62P / 21C (7 Fiber) / 147 Fat

[richard]

Richard, did you eat only one meal or in a very small eating window in order to keep it at such a low level?

one meal a day. But then I find I settle comfortably into that pattern and have fto force myself out of it to “change it up”

[carolT]

if you eat something and your BG goes DOWN - and not up at all - that means that the food you ate prompted an insulin release (but didn’t affect your BG)

I would say it had a disproportionate effect on insulin to deal with the amount of glucose involved, if any. Some people can overreact to glucose in this way. Or it could be an insulin response to a sweetener or protein, etc.

[carolT]

Does anyone have any concept of an idea of how much fat/calories is in the roasting juices of a whole chicken? … I had a quarter cup but have no idea what to log. I assume it’s all fat, no carbs or protein.

I wouldn’t make the assumption of no protein. The drippings can contain proteins from the skin and connective tissue much like pork rinds or bone broth. Otherwise, if there’s no water in the drippings, you could just weigh it in grams and come up with an estimate.

[Brenda]

Brenda, did you ignore protein recommendations (1-1.5g/LBM) during the challenge?

Yes! I ate as much as I wanted whenever I wanted, though within a week I settled back into my 20/4 IF routine.
The first week I ate a lot of steak! I was really hungry! One day I ate two pounds! Lol. More than one meal, of course.

I finally settled into only needing a one pound VERY FATTY ribeye once a day. I cut the fat off of one of those unusually fatty ribeyes to figure more accurate macros. I did that purely out of curiosity.
It must be in that thread. A regular 16 ounce ribeye has approximately 150 grams protein. I eat half that now. When eating meat only, you need more.

May I suggest also including offal for more balanced nutrients?

[Brenda]

(1-1.5g/LBM)

And this is per kg as Phinney and Volek support.

[KetoLikeaLady]

And this is per kg as Phinney and Volek support.

Yep, that’s the formula I use. According to my DEXA from last week, I have 44KG of LBM, so my protein requirements are hella low. I’ve been trying to figure out how I can still eat two meals. I’m thinking a salad with lots of olive oil and ounce of feta cheese for lunch (only abuot 7g protein and the rest fat) for one meal and then a fatty steak for the other meal. I really like having eggs and bacon for lunch, but if I do that, I’m not left with much protein for a second meal.

OOH! And interesting info from DEXA, my bone density is super high. 5.7lbs of bones on this girl, way above the average of 4.4lbs. She said if I was overweight when my bones were developing as a kid (I was), you typically have strong bone density as an adult…so hurray for my chubby child self? I wish someone had told me at the time that there was an upside!

Yes! I ate as much as I wanted whenever I wanted, though within a week I settled back into my 20/4 IF routine.
The first week I ate a lot of steak! I was really hungry! One day I ate two pounds! Lol. More than one meal, of course.

I feel fairly confident that I could devour 2lbs of steak in a day.

May I suggest also including offal for more balanced nutrients?

Interesting you should mention. I roasted a whole chicken yesterday and for the first time ever, I didn’t throw away the giblet-y bits. I Googled what to do with them and I ended up just sauteeing them in butter. It turns out, I am NOT a fan! Haha.I had what I think was a kidney or a heart and a tiny bite of the liver. Neither of which I’d ever like to try again…but if it’s necessary, I could probably swallow it whole instead of chewing it.

I would say it had a disproportionate effect on insulin to deal with the amount of glucose involved, if any. Some people can overreact to glucose in this way. Or it could be an insulin response to a sweetener or protein, etc.

Interesting - so according to Fung, Stevia can have an effect on your insulin, but not affect BG. Would it be safe to say that if I tested for Artificial Sweeteners, I would look for either a dip or a spike to give me an indication of whether or not they affect my insulin? (Suffice it to say, the only way I’d be sure they don’t affect insulin or BG would be if my BG remained constant at the following timed intervals?)

[Brenda]

giblet-y bits

My new favorite word.

BTW, my bone density is super high too. Off the charts. I liken it to carrying around 100 extra pounds all those years, and now? My lifting.

[KetoLikeaLady]

My new favorite word.

I have a button on my desk for when I do something good at work, and it’s like little cheerleaders cheering me on. That’s button-worthy.

[carolT]

Interesting - so according to Fung, Stevia can have an effect on your insulin, but not affect BG. Would it be safe to say that if I tested for Artificial Sweeteners, I would look for either a dip or a spike to give me an indication of whether or not they affect my insulin?

Since glucose does it’s best to remain stable, any insulin released could create a dip in glucose OR your liver could release more glucose to cover the dip. Which would look like a non-response. So it’s kind of hard to tell what’s going on unless you have an obvious reaction. It’s possible that doing simultaneous blood ketone testing might give you a clue. That is, a dip in ketones while glucose is stable means there’s a reaction that monitoring glucose alone does not see.

[KetoLikeaLady]

So it’s kind of hard to tell what’s going on unless you have an obvious reaction. It’s possible that doing simultaneous blood ketone testing might give you a clue. That is, a dip in ketones while glucose is stable means there’s a reaction that monitoring glucose alone does not see.

Thanks!

[KetoLikeaLady]

Screenshotted my weighins (each morning that I’m
home) for the past 3 months…it’s certainly not a downward trend but I have high hopes.

I tracked food consistently for the first two months, then stopped tracking and did “lazy keto” for about a month. I started tracking again recently, so I plan to compare my intake with my weight chart.

ALSO I had my DEXA scan, so that’s another piece of information I’ll be able to compare once I have my second reading in 3 months.

Add to that the insulin tests, metabolic panel, lipoprofile tests, etc, and I’d say we’re pretty close to information overload. I love data, so this is my version of KCKO. I’m hoping you don’t mind helping me interpret those results @daveketo!

I’m clearly hoping I have better results over the next 3 months, but even if it’s not what I want, at least I’ll be able to review the data and hopefully figure out why.

The only changes I plan to make the next 3 months are: less stressful workouts, more hot yoga, and fascia blasting. Oh, and working on my digestive issues through supplements and potentially talking to an integrative doctor.

[DaveKeto]

I’m hoping you don’t mind helping me interpret those results @daveketo!

Yes, of course. It’s mostly just ia time juggling thing for me is these days.

I will say that right now you may actually be over focusing on the smaller margins of your data (like glucose). Get a nice, large sample size before coming to any big conclusions.

[KetoLikeaLady]

I have a large sampling, I’m generally at 70ish. I just had never tested throughout the day like that.

[KetoLikeaLady]

@DaveKeto Got my results!
Fasted 13 hours, at home BG was 69 and ketones were 1.9.

NMR Lipoprofile:
LDL-P: 2299 (High)
LDL-C: 259 (High)
(According to the test, these are super high, but I think these are the two everyone in the keto community says don’t actually matter, right?)
HDL-C: 87
Triglycerides: 96
Cholesterol: 365 (High)
(This is another that isn’t relevant, right?
HDL-P: 25.3 (Low)
Small LDL-P (<90)
LDL size: 22.3

LP-IR (Insulin resistance score): <25
(Looks like this is on the really low end, but I can’t be sure)

CBC Panel
Everything shows in the suggested range, (though some are on the low side of acceptable). Let me know if there any specifics I should look for or share.

CMP Panel:
Glucose, serum: 71
Everything in this panel shows in the suggested range except my Creatinine Serum was 0.69 (Low)…no idea what that is.

HbA1C: 5.1
Insulin: 2.2 (Low)
I’d love to know what low insulin means?

So…there you have it. At first glance, everything looks pretty normal, but I really don’t know how to interpret this and would LOVE your help!!

Edited to add:
I had my DEXA Scan and an RMR test last week as well:
97 lbs LBM
31.5% BF
47 lbs fat
5.7 lbs bones (super high bone density)

RMR: 10% lower than average, around 1262, estimated daily burn at 1344.

Usual blood glucose is about 70 throughout the day, ketones hover between 0.4 - 0.8, but go much higher when fasting or doing bike workouts.

@richard Meant to ask you - do you have a Strava profile?