I. Am. So. Frustrated!

fasting
progress
experiment
(Dave) #46

Reading though more of the thread, I’d recommend getting a full work up. This will include what was mentioned above…

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP)*, Complete Blood Count (CBC), Cortisol, High Sensitivity C-Reactive Protein (hsCRP), Ferritin, hbA1C, Thyroid Panel, Fasting Insulin, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR) Lipoprofile

IMPORTANT: I’d want you to also take your Ketones (BHB) around the time you were getting this blood draw to have for comparison as well.

Of course, be sure to fast 12-14 hours before the blood draw (which is standard advice) – try not to exceed 14 hours by too much as it will affect the results.

Of the tests above, I’d be particularly interested in Fasting Glucose (included in CMP), Fasting Insulin, and NMR. They’ll provide a strong clue on the actual energy build up within your system and its management, which will really say a lot about the overall metabolism situation.

(What The Fast?!) #47

Thanks Dave. I tracked everything for the first 2 months and I can go back to doing that, but honestly - I think (for me) it causes more stress than it is beneficial. When I track, I get obsessed with CICO and I’m trying really hard not to fall into that mentality anymore.

I don’t have a lot “sneaky carbs” because the only carbs I get are from leafy green vegetables and OCCASIONALLY, a handful of nuts. I eat whole foods - eggs, bacon, steak, etc. I’m intermittent fasting most days.

My ketones sit between 0.4 and 0.8 most days, though I get into higher numbers when I do big endurance bike rides or extended fasting. My usual Blood Glucose in the mornings is in the 60-70’s.

What I’m looking for: to find out if there are any issues (like insulin resistance) that are preventing me from experiencing weight loss on keto. My history: no health problems, I work out consistently (both HiiT training and endurance cycling) have had a full thyroid panel in the past and was in the perfectly normal range, have had saliva test and my cortisol and testosterone were high. I also think seeing an endocrinologist may be a good idea, as I don’t go to the bathroom regularly - I’m currently supplementing with magnesium (citrate/malate pills, citrate liquid in keto-aide, and Natural Calm at night), potassium, stool softeners, and I’m even taking Aloe Lax at night, and it still doesn’t happen but every 2-3 days, so it seems there is some war being waged inside my body.

Benefits I’ve experienced on keto: being able to longer without feeling hunger, my allergies have SIGNIFICANTLY reduced (I used to have a few allergy attacks a week, now I stopped taking Zyrtec altogether and haven’t had a single allergy attack), able to do endurance rides without fueling on the bike.

Once I get these tests done, if it turns out I’m “normal” by all the standards, then at least I’ll know. My body despises losing weight, not matter what diet I do or how much I work out. This has been the consistent theme of my life - I STRONGLY believe keto will change that, and having these tests will give me the peace of my mind I need to KCKO. OR…if it turns out that I do have some other issue, I’ll be able to address it.

(Michelle) #48

I’ve gained 4 lbs, so I totally her what you are saying. Mine might be muscle, but it’s hard for me to believe I’ve gained 4 lbs of muscle, bone density, etc. Some of my clothes fit better, some DO NOT. I’ve changed things up like this:

  1. Tons more water. I was thirsty all the time, so feel like I was dehydrated. Doing 1 gallon a day now
  2. DIM Supplement (see my post under supplements about this). I think my hormones are wacky, and I’m going to get those checked next
  3. Added a probiotic
  4. Cut out MOST all sweet keto treats. Was getting out of hand
  5. Adding in more veggies, cutting down on added fat. I just don’t think I need to add in fat at this stage.
  6. Added in 3 more tabata training routines to my week

Soooooo… all that said, I will keep tweaking until I find what is right. I feel like I’m gaining weight all in my midsection and that’s really pissing me off.

(eat more) #49

vitamin shoppe will thank you for my purchase later today :joy:

i’ve been doing this too…i’m still adding fat but i am paying more attn to the quality…less dairy for sure
now i need to be more mindful of the nuts/nut butters…i’m not going over my carbs but i suspect this may be an issue for me…

i didn’t track at all for 7 days…back to tracking this week…just because i feel better mentally/emotionally…which might sound lame but i know i’ve previously gone sideways not keeping a record with other woe

at least we are not alone in our frustration/tweaking right? :blush:

(Dave) #50

I’ve actually had this same conversation with many of my family several times. In fact, it often includes “I’m not like you, Dave” in there as well. But when you think about it, you’re almost certainly accumulating more stress by not knowing than you are from knowing.

There’s a saying I like, “if you don’t measure it, you can’t manage it.”

I do believe in the laws of thermodynamics, so if you’re either storing it, burning it, or excreting it. This might sound CICO, it’s that last part that is poorly understood/measured – as I’m proving this myself with my own diet (was 2500cal pre-keto, now 3000 post or I lose weight).

Thus, whenever I get into the deep details with my family, I always, always, always start with inputs. What are they eating – exactly? No generalizations, and no blind spots such as beverages, condiments, etc, account for everything for a while. And 4 out of 5 times we find the issues there.

(Richard Morris) #51

I’d like to see a metabolic cart analysis of Dave RMR before and after keto. I’m betting there will be a 500 kCal difference. The 1st law of thermodynamics is always on duty.

(Dave) #52

Me too, me too!

(But then, this would head into the Burn It category for my energy)

#53

You don’t need to eat fat if you want to lose fat. Just make sure you’re hitting your protein goals and eat under 25g of carbs each day.

(James storie) #54

Sure, you can loose weight by restricting your fat, but your going to screw up your metabolism. You need to eat enough fat to stay satiated. If you don’t your body will think it’s in famine. That’s the whole point of rabbit starvation. With no fat, you end up eating way too much protein to compensate, or you stay hungry!

(What The Fast?!) #55

Ha! You’re clearly not a woman who has spent her entire life tracking calories and restricting food. I’m starting to track everything again, per your recommendation - but no, it’s definitely not less stressful.

(eat more) #56

do you track as you go or just log at the end of the day?
I usually log it all at the end of the day…a before bed thing like washing my face/brushing teeth.
it’s kind of fun…like a game of “how did i do?”
i have a small magnetic whiteboard on the fridge that i got at walmart for like $1.27 and just write down as i prep.
i don’t worry about what “i have left” throughout the day…i just eat and see where i landed.

(James storie) #57

This is some good advice!

(What The Fast?!) #58

That’s probably smarter, if I’m just looking to track. Should change my mindset.

(Adam Kirby) #59

Difference is you’re actually doing it for data collection purposes here and a hopefully deeper understanding of what’s going on, not to meet some mythical calorie target.

(Dave) #60

Sorry to hear that - but I can assure you I have at least an 80% improvement ratio from tracking alone with regard to my friends and family (and probably more like 90%, but I’m an engineer and don’t want to overshoot :D)

But particularly with total dietary energy – tracking is key.

In fact, as it happens, I’ll be doing an Adapt Live video this Friday on the importance of tracking that covers these various observations and why it is often underutilized when trying to solve a problem.

(Lauren Krieger) #61

I’ve been tracking my ketones as I go through a period of high stress, including a round of antibiotics from a root canal, and it has impacted my ketones greatly, as well as my energy level, my workouts, my blood glucose and my weight. Additionally, I see glucose rise 0.6-1.0mmol fasted depending on where I am with my cycle. When my body is fighting something or my immune system is actively working on something, I do not lose weight. Maybe that’s it?

(Dave) #62

I’m not as much a fan of this method unless it is coupled with taking pictures at the time (see my food logging protocol).

(What The Fast?!) #63

Thanks. I only recently stopped tracking - I did it fervently for the first several months. I just find myself artificially restricting calories when I track. I’m trying to figure out how to explain this correctly…

…it’s like, I completely stop listening to satiety signals when I track calories - or rather, I can’t hear the satiety signals when I’m tracking, because I’m always thinking “I ate too much” or “I didn’t eat enough” or “is that enough fat?”

@mikki maybe you can relate to this? I’ve relied on eating “what I’m supposed to” based on macros, calories, etc for so many years, it’s hard to turn that orthorexia off. The only way I’ve been able to relinquish that control is to stop tracking altogether. Granted, I’m always mentally tracking, but you know what I mean.

I think maybe just writing everything down and then tracking at the end of the day is a better method, as @mikki suggested. My only “issue” (and I’m using that term lightly because I don’t dislike keto at all) is the “eat fat to satiety” component. I’m great at following directions, so if I need to stay at certain macros, I can do that. (I’ve done IIFYM and tracked meticulously…though I didn’t lose a single ounce doing that either.) I’m trying very hard to let go of that mentality and begin to listen to my body’s signals telling me when I’m hungry and when I’m not. Unfortunately, doing that has not helped with weight loss (yet).

Long story short…I’ve started tracking everything again, so I can identify if there are issues with the “inputs.” I just hope that one day I don’t have to be a slave to it.

(eat more) #64

i weigh everything (in grams) and write down the grams of each item on the whiteboard…if i have left overs on my plate or when i get home from work i weigh those and subtract the diff.

so basically same method? :blush:

(Dave) #65

You may do this for a while, but try not to reflect on the data – just record it. The more you do it, the less relevance it has on a per-item basis (there’s a phych technical name for this that escapes me right now). It’s like reality TV – after a while, the participants are so used to the cameras that they stop being on their “modified” behavior. You want to get to the point where tracking is as instinctive as driving.