How much additional fat should I put in my salad`?


(Bob M) #22

We have modified a lot of recipes to decrease the amount of fat. I personally have found that, in general, high fat is not sating. So, I’ll add less butter than called for, and we’ve even stopped with fat bombs, a lot of cheeses, etc. I’ve switched from pepperoni or other high fat meat to ham (gotta watch the carbs, though). I avoid a lot of dairy, though have been eating some lately. I tend toward no bacon and instead ham and eggs, if I’m eating that.

It’s really up to you.


#23

Not necessarily. Some people do low-fat keto. I had a perfect low-fat keto day myself and low-fat is almost impossible for me :smiley:
Of course, it only works if one has a low energy intake need for their goals in their current body, among others. (And it may matter what we call low-fat. <80g fat is low-fat to me :smiley: I saw definitions for low-carbs, there are guidelines for the adequate protein range but fat…? No idea what is low-fat, not like I care much as I am a high-fat person and couldn’t change this.)

But don’t believe those “random” numbers often circulating in keto circles like 70-75% fat. 50% may be perfect for someone. I went from my comfy 60-70% fat to 55-65, sometimes lower lately (and then I went a bit up again when I roasted a big slab of fattier meat and started to eat too many calories again, they usually happen at the same time, higher-fat and higher-calorie, no wonder). And I LOVE fat. Too much.

I saw keto recipes where I was shocked about some amounts too… Each to their own, we are all different. I go for close to zero added fat as I have to. Maybe if I was a very active person bulking, I could afford some but I wouldn’t need it. Others put fat into/onto everything as they get closer to their ideal eating that way. And most people are in between as far as I know.

We are so different in so many ways. Even the same person needs different macros for their food if they change (body, goal, activity)! Or if they eat once instead of 3 or 5 times… My attitude must change a lot when that happens (or when I want to make it happen).
So I find it normal that the recipe that works so well for someone else, isn’t good for you.


(Bacon is better) #24

It’s a higher-fat diet than the dietary guidelines want us to eat, but it’s only just enough fat to satisfy your hunger. You don’t need to stuff your gullet with fat. You will probably find the butter, tallow, or lard you use to cook with, plus the fat that comes with your meat, and possibly the fat in your salad dressing to be quite sufficient.

The emphasis on fat is simply that the body can metabolise either glucose or fatty acids, so when we cut back on the glucose (i.e., the carbohydrate), we need to compensate by increasing fat. Since fat contains a bit more than twice as many calories per gram as carbohydrate, it actually takes quite a bit less fat to supply the same amount of energy as used to come from the carbohydrate we are no longer eating. So, for example, 180 grams of fat will yield the equivalent amount of energy to 407 grams of carbohydrate.

We lower carbohydrate because all that glucose raises our insulin and keeps our body in fat-storing mode. Fat has a minimal effect on insulin, allowing our insulin level to drop and put us in fat-burning mode. Under normal circumstances, the body does not use protein as an energy source; it only does that to keep us from starving to death.


#25

I don’t force fat where it doesn’t belong, there’s no point to it. Whatever comes in with my food or what I cook in is what I wind up eating.


#26

Agreed! Have it come in with useful nutrition and not empty fat calories that do nothing for you.


(Alec) #28

I say drop the salad, and just eat the dressing.


(Oliver ) #29

Right so first I want to thank everyone for contributing to an interesting discussion. I will definitely keep an eye on the attached recipe resources provided in this thread.

Right so again the reason and main motivation for me to try to keep my protein moderate has do to with that I don’t want to put to much strain on my kidneys and liver. That said when I say moderate protein its generally on the what I guess most people would say is on the lower side (with an average of about 40 grams of protein day ). I also seems to be doing fine with a slightly higher number (that is about protein 74 grams a day).

If I’m not consuming some fat it will most likely to quite rapid weight loss. (which as an underweight person might not be very beneficial for me).

That said I also try to get most of my fat from healthy sources and not try to slip into a dirty or lazy keto style diet to much (which i understand might not be that beneficial for my health).

I personally don’t mind, but rather enjoy adding some fat to my meals (and consume things like nuts and Keto coffee) Also not trying to spend to much time, money and effort on things related to nutrition…


(Oliver ) #30

Also rather being very strict keto I sometimes up my carb intake slightly depending on the day *etc.

*in a “healthy” way. these days… #goals.


(Bacon is better) #31

Protein—and when we say “protein,” we mean amino acids—doesn’t have much to do with the liver except to provide the raw material for gluconeogenesis. The nitrogen removed from the amino acids during this process then gets used to form nitric oxide for helping control blood pressure.

Mainstream thinking believes that the presence of amino acids in urine (proteinuria) is a sign that the kidneys are being damaged by the protein, but it is actually more likely that high serum glucose and insulin from eating a high-glucose (i.e., high-carb) diet are the cause of the damage, and the protein in the urine is the result, not the cause. Cutting the carbohydrate intake should help greatly with healing the kidneys.

Protein is essential to the human diet. You need a reasonable amount, in the range of 1.0-1.5 g per kg of lean mass a day. The body cannot store amino acids, the way it can store glucose and fats, so a certain minimum of protein is required each day. The protein does not supply energy, under normal circumstances; it is needed for structural purposes, and to provide nitrogen. (The human body cannot utilise nitrogen, unless it comes in the form of an amino acid; otherwise, simply breathing in and out would provide us all the nitrogen we needed.)

Some source of energy is also required, the normal sources being fats and carbohydrates. Given the bad effects of consuming too much carbohydrate, a well-formulated ketogenic diet relies on fat intake to provide energy. Unlike glucose, fat intake has almost no effect on insulin, so it is a much better fuel source. People often fear to eat fat, thinking that it will interfere with the use of body fat, but Dr. Stephen Phinney has data to show that on a well-formulated ketogenic diet, fatty acid metabolism increases enough for the body to make use of both dietary fat and excess stored fat.

But the body will not make use of its fat reserves if we stint on the calories, which is why he recommends eating enough fat to satisfy our hunger. When we do that, the body will set our appetite at a level that will allow excess stored fat to be used. Dr. Phinney says that when people eat to satiety, if they have excess fat to shed, they spontaneously eat about 1000 calories less than their energy expenditure, the balance being made up from stored fat. As the excess stored fat is used up, our appetite naturally increases until we reach the point where there is no more excess to use and we are meeting our daily energy needs from our food.

Of course, if we don’t have any excess fat to begin with, we might actually put on a bit of weight on a well-formulated ketogenic diet. So many people use this way of eating to shed poundage (kilogrammage? :grin:) that we tend to forget that a ketogenic diet is not a weight-loss diet, but rather a weight-normalisation diet.


#32

Oh my. Are you very tiny and inactive or use some super tiny numbers?
I am small and don’t need much protein so 100g should be enough for me. Probably wouldn’t lose muscle somewhat lower but it can’t be an excessive amount even for me.
Unless one has some condition where normal protein intake is a problem (no idea how they function, poor souls), 1-2g/kg for LBM shouldn’t be a problem (1 may be too little but enough for some people, even for muscle gain in extreme cases). For some of us on this forum even significantly more isn’t a problem but it’s probably not needed. Or it depends on the circumstances.
Below 1g sounds little but if you have a very good reason for it and you can do it… It sounds tricky as few people feel okay eating extremely fatty stuff and I suppose you need some normal amount of calories even being very l bight… 74g sounds way more doable than 40… Even normal for many people.


(Allie) #33

So you’re buying in to the BS that’s spread by the anti-keto brigade… right.

sigh

Body needs proteins to survive.

40g is not even enough for a 4ft sedentary woman that weighs 70lbs. But whatever, go ahead and do what you want. We will still be here when you need help undoing the damage.


(Jane) #34

I agree! I put in 6 oz hamburger into Chronometer and that is 44g protein. I am 5’ 2" and have eaten way more than than for decades and my kidney blood markers have always been normal. I also get protein from eggs, cream and cheese besides the meat I eat.


(Bob M) #35

As a point of reference, I usually eat a pound of meat at each meal, two meals a day. I’ve been eating a lot of lean beef roasts, as they are $4/pound or less (steak is double to triple that - on sale).

image

That’s one meal (my first meal of the day).

Edit: Did not realize that “cholesterol” had a % daily value. Beyond idiocy.

Edit 2: And why is there a % daily value for carbs but not protein? The latter is way more important than the former.


(Jane) #36

Because they want to keep us sick? :woman_shrugging:


#37

I’m also very cautious about things that could damage my kidneys and liver. But by the things I’ve been reading, I think normal protein coming from food won’t hurt you. It is unlikely you could eat too much protein consistently in a way it could possibly hurt your body, if that protein is coming from normal food.

Having said that, I’d only encourage you to seek peer-reviewed papers about protein and kidney disease to make up your own mind and be able to enjoy your protein without worries.


(Oliver ) #38

Thanks for contributing with lots interesting information @PaulL I will try to keep what you wrote in mind (and come back to the notes).

Right will try to keep this in mind to.


(Oliver ) #39

Right so I think we’re having a very interesting discussion and want to thank everyone who contribute to it. One part of living the keto lifestyle for me is to like improve and that’s also involves learning for me :slight_smile:

From the information the information given it seems as I could at least up my protein intake slightly from the average 40 grams of protein I consumed some days.


(Oliver ) #40

I can maybe mention keto style smoothies and drinks is something I find "interesting and I guess is something I maybe could try to in a larger extent try to incorporate in my *diet/lifestyle.

*the same goes for nuts and seeds.


(Bacon is better) #41

If you put any carbohydrate in your smoothie, be aware that the blending process eliminates the fibre by mechanically destroying it, so then you have to count the total carb load of the ingredients of the smoothie, or you are likely to exceed your carb limit without realising it.