How do you deal with people trying to force you to eat carbohydrates?

[OldDog]

I said " You win "…

Who’s digging the hole now… ( Metaphorically speaking… )

[ctviggen]

It’s this kind of pseudo-science that allows vegans to say misleading *&^% like this:

Sorry Vegans, Broccoli Doesn't Have More Protein Than Steak | Christopher...

[Shortstuff]

I fell for that &*%@#! years ago and ate a near vegan diet, with one of the staples being rice and beans. Over time, I developed depression on that diet (not to mention constant hunger), and didn’t realize what was happening until I looked back upon that time.

Yep, me too…

[Shinita]

I never saw this one. Just comparing dry beans with raw meat…

Vegans have so idiotic (and in this case, unfair, misleading) things sometimes… And I do like normal vegans.

But rice and beans probably works well for many people. Not for you, not for me (probably not because of the protein, more like the carbs) but for the happier, healthier vegans out there? Maybe they add enough other things? I doubt protein is a problem on a plant-based diet if one knows what they are doing and learn things (but I never went too deep, pairing plants, I know about that and read vegan blogs but how much is needed? no idea. I always ate a lot of animal protein, just not meat. you probably know these way better than me).
.
Hunger is another thing, I wasn’t hungry even on my experimental plant-based days and they were so low-carb even beans couldn’t fit. I find most legumes very satiating (not peanuts) but satiation is very, very individual. I still have a hypothese that a big part of your problem was low-fat and I would starve on a high-carb low-fat diet myself. Maybe not but it sounds logical to me. Some of us need fat to balance out carbs or rather not eating much carbs.

It’s nice to get nutrients easier and maybe better than someone with a plant-based diet for sure. Or not making recipes with 23 ingredients instead of 1 to get a crappy emulation… Not all vegans do that, of course. But as I get closer to carnivore, life just gets simpler and better.

Rice and bean is like rice and chicken breast for a bodybuilder. Common example that is super boring for most people but so many other options exist. So many legumes and grains. Huge variety. But it’s not all about variety, of course. I wouldn’t live on plants. I wouldn’t give a simple staple of my quite restricted current diet for all the plants.

[anon81060937]

Beef. It contains all the essential amino acids in the proportions necessary, which is the actual definition of “high-quality.” (Or was, 100 years ago. The vegan agenda may have changed that.) Very few other foods even come close. This is not a surprise, since it’s the food we evolved to eat.

There is no single plant food that comes close, although it is indeed possible to combine foods to arrive at a high-quality diet. This is why, for example, beans and rice are paired in many traditional recipes.

If beef is high quality protein and it supposedly contains all the essential amino acids in the assumed proportions necessary and we supposedly evolved to eat it… then why do animals who eat exclusively large animals have the shortest lifespans, smallest brains and smallest sexual organs? Lions, tigers, sharks, wolves, etc…

What is self-evident and what the biochemistry actually says doesn’t add up with what is being said by both sides. Carnivores or vegans.

Real nuts surpass meat in protein, calories and their anabolic effect on our biology. Real nuts increase SHBG like no other food I’ve ever tried.

The free hormone hypothesis

According to the “free hormone hypothesis” only free steroids are biologically active, whereas those complexed with SHBG are inactive. As we’ll see, this notion can no longer be taken at face value.
https://blog.insidetracker.com/sex-hormone-binding-globulin-new-science-questions-old-beliefs

[amwassil]

Overall size is irrelevant. Brain size matters. Carnivores have big brains. Herbivores have big guts, including our primate ancestors.

Meat-Eating Among the Earliest Humans

Evidence of meat-eating among our distant human ancestors is hard to find and even harder to interpret, but researchers are beginning to piece together a coherent picture. Over the course of six million years of human evolution, brain size increased 300 percent. Our huge, complex brains can store and process decades worth of information in split seconds, solve multifactorial problems, and create abstract ideas and images. This would have been a big advantage to early humans as they were spre…

[ajbennett]

Regarding protein quality and digestibility - whey, egg white are highest, and soy and beef are right up there too. You can get quality protein from plant or animal sources, though more animal sources seem to be found in the upper range compared to plant sources.

Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score

[amwassil]

You also have to contend with plant toxins. No one wants to be someone else’s next meal. Animals can fight or run. Plants can do neither so use chemicals to make themselves less tasty, less digestible or even poisonous. Soy, for example, contains plant estrogens which have deleterious effects on animals who eat it. Including us.

[anon81060937]

Overall size is irrelevant. Brain size matters. Carnivores have big brains. Herbivores have big guts, including our primate ancestors.

“Overall size is irrelevant. Brain size matters.” How does this not contradict itself?

Carnivores have big brains? I would love to see a skull of a wild land carnivore with this supposed big brain.

You also have to contend with plant toxins. No one wants to be someone else’s next meal. Animals can fight or run. Plants can do neither so use chemicals to make themselves less tasty, less digestible or even poisonous. Soy, for example, contains plant estrogens which have deleterious effects on animals who eat it. Including us.

There’s poisonous plants just as there’s poisonous animals.

I agree that soy and all grains are poisonous. All plants which require excessive processing are poisonous.

[amwassil]

Brain size predicts problem-solving ability in mammalian carnivores

[anon81060937]

@amwassil

I’m not surprised that bears have the largest brains out of the land carnivores because they eat fatty fish but this paper still doesn’t prove that eating land animals drastically increases brain size because their brains are still close to the same size as a chimpanzee brain.

Figure 7 | Variability of brain size and external topography....

How do you think our brain started increasing before we had the mental ability to create the tools required to hunt large animals in the first place?

https://www.google.com/search?q=magnesium+elevation+neurogenesis

[OldDog]

According to this, the greatest increase in human brain size occurred between 800,000 and 200,000 years ago…

According to this,

The first major evolutionary change in the human diet was the incorporation of meat and marrow from large animals, which occurred by at least 2.6 million years ago.

So there was plenty of time for carnivory to influence brain size in humans…

[ajbennett]

Hunting and eating megafauna - concentrated sources of fat and protein - led to the big expansion of relative brain size in proto-humans.

[OldDog]

Indeed.

Here is an interesting article regarding that…

Megafauna and ecosystem function from the Pleistocene to the Anthropocene

The first hints of abnormal rates of megafaunal loss appear earlier, in the Early Pleistocene in Africa around 1 Mya, where there was a pronounced reduction in African proboscidean diversity (11) and the loss of several carnivore lineages, including sabertooth cats (34), which continued to flourish on other continents. Their extirpation in Africa is likely related to Homo erectus evolution into the carnivore niche space (34, 35), with increased use of fire and an increased component of meat in human diets, possibly associated with the metabolic demands of expanding brain size (36). Although remarkable, these early megafauna extinctions were moderate in strength and speed relative to later extinctions experienced on all other continents and islands, probably because of a longer history in Africa and southern Eurasia of gradual hominid coevolution with other animals.

[anon81060937]

@OldDog @ajbennett

Please post neurochemistry and biochemistry research to back up what you’re saying instead of a convincing fairy tale for those who don’t know better.

Please explain which molecules contribute to the increase of neurotrophins and bone remodelling of the skull so the brain has room to grow.

Neurotrophin

Bone remodeling

[ajbennett]

Hunting and meat eating (and later, cooking) made us human through our big brains.

[OldDog]

You would do better to address the authors of those fairy tale research papers…

[anon81060937]

Hunting and meat eating (and later, cooking) made us human through our big brains.

Seems true at face value but when we look at the neurochemistry. What you’ve put forth is storytelling. Same propaganda vegans put forth because of their ignorance.

Elephants don’t have fire yet their brain is larger than ours.
Dolphins don’t have fire yet their brain is larger than ours.

If more calories = bigger brain. Then obese people would have the largest brain.

[anon81060937]

You would do better to address the authors of those fairy tale research papers…

You can’t teach old dogs new tricks.

[PaulL]

I thought that the assertion is not that absolute size of brain makes for greater intelligence, but rather brain size in relation to total body size?

In any case, asserting that something is a “fairy-tale” isn’t particularly helpful. Can you provide evidence to counter the evidence already presented? Let’s have some debate, in place of the name-calling.