How do you deal with people trying to force you to eat carbohydrates?

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #43

I said " You win "…

Who’s digging the hole now… ( Metaphorically speaking… ) :slightly_smiling_face:

(Bob M) #44

It’s this kind of pseudo-science that allows vegans to say misleading *&^% like this:

(Allie) #45

Yep, me too…


I never saw this one. Just comparing dry beans with raw meat…

Vegans have so idiotic (and in this case, unfair, misleading) things sometimes… And I do like normal vegans.

But rice and beans probably works well for many people. Not for you, not for me (probably not because of the protein, more like the carbs) but for the happier, healthier vegans out there? Maybe they add enough other things? I doubt protein is a problem on a plant-based diet if one knows what they are doing and learn things (but I never went too deep, pairing plants, I know about that and read vegan blogs but how much is needed? no idea. I always ate a lot of animal protein, just not meat. you probably know these way better than me).
Hunger is another thing, I wasn’t hungry even on my experimental plant-based days and they were so low-carb even beans couldn’t fit. I find most legumes very satiating (not peanuts) but satiation is very, very individual. I still have a hypothese that a big part of your problem was low-fat and I would starve on a high-carb low-fat diet myself. Maybe not but it sounds logical to me. Some of us need fat to balance out carbs or rather not eating much carbs.

It’s nice to get nutrients easier and maybe better than someone with a plant-based diet for sure. Or not making recipes with 23 ingredients instead of 1 to get a crappy emulation… Not all vegans do that, of course. But as I get closer to carnivore, life just gets simpler and better.

Rice and bean is like rice and chicken breast for a bodybuilder. Common example that is super boring for most people but so many other options exist. So many legumes and grains. Huge variety. But it’s not all about variety, of course. I wouldn’t live on plants. I wouldn’t give a simple staple of my quite restricted current diet for all the plants.


If beef is high quality protein and it supposedly contains all the essential amino acids in the assumed proportions necessary and we supposedly evolved to eat it… then why do animals who eat exclusively large animals have the shortest lifespans, smallest brains and smallest sexual organs? Lions, tigers, sharks, wolves, etc…

What is self-evident and what the biochemistry actually says doesn’t add up with what is being said by both sides. Carnivores or vegans.

Real nuts surpass meat in protein, calories and their anabolic effect on our biology. Real nuts increase SHBG like no other food I’ve ever tried.

The free hormone hypothesis

According to the “free hormone hypothesis” only free steroids are biologically active, whereas those complexed with SHBG are inactive. As we’ll see, this notion can no longer be taken at face value.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #48

Overall size is irrelevant. Brain size matters. Carnivores have big brains. Herbivores have big guts, including our primate ancestors.

(Jack Bennett) #49

Regarding protein quality and digestibility - whey, egg white are highest, and soy and beef are right up there too. You can get quality protein from plant or animal sources, though more animal sources seem to be found in the upper range compared to plant sources.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #50

You also have to contend with plant toxins. No one wants to be someone else’s next meal. Animals can fight or run. Plants can do neither so use chemicals to make themselves less tasty, less digestible or even poisonous. Soy, for example, contains plant estrogens which have deleterious effects on animals who eat it. Including us.


“Overall size is irrelevant. Brain size matters.” How does this not contradict itself?

Carnivores have big brains? I would love to see a skull of a wild land carnivore with this supposed big brain.

There’s poisonous plants just as there’s poisonous animals.

I agree that soy and all grains are poisonous. All plants which require excessive processing are poisonous.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #52



I’m not surprised that bears have the largest brains out of the land carnivores because they eat fatty fish but this paper still doesn’t prove that eating land animals drastically increases brain size because their brains are still close to the same size as a chimpanzee brain.

How do you think our brain started increasing before we had the mental ability to create the tools required to hunt large animals in the first place?

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #54

According to this, the greatest increase in human brain size occurred between 800,000 and 200,000 years ago…

According to this,

The first major evolutionary change in the human diet was the incorporation of meat and marrow from large animals, which occurred by at least 2.6 million years ago.

So there was plenty of time for carnivory to influence brain size in humans…

(Jack Bennett) #55

Hunting and eating megafauna - concentrated sources of fat and protein - led to the big expansion of relative brain size in proto-humans.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #56


Here is an interesting article regarding that…

Megafauna and ecosystem function from the Pleistocene to the Anthropocene

The first hints of abnormal rates of megafaunal loss appear earlier, in the Early Pleistocene in Africa around 1 Mya, where there was a pronounced reduction in African proboscidean diversity (11) and the loss of several carnivore lineages, including sabertooth cats (34), which continued to flourish on other continents. Their extirpation in Africa is likely related to Homo erectus evolution into the carnivore niche space (34, 35), with increased use of fire and an increased component of meat in human diets, possibly associated with the metabolic demands of expanding brain size (36). Although remarkable, these early megafauna extinctions were moderate in strength and speed relative to later extinctions experienced on all other continents and islands, probably because of a longer history in Africa and southern Eurasia of gradual hominid coevolution with other animals.


@OldDog @ajbennett

Please post neurochemistry and biochemistry research to back up what you’re saying instead of a convincing fairy tale for those who don’t know better.

Please explain which molecules contribute to the increase of neurotrophins and bone remodelling of the skull so the brain has room to grow.

(Jack Bennett) #58

Hunting and meat eating (and later, cooking) made us human through our big brains.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #59

You would do better to address the authors of those fairy tale research papers…


Seems true at face value but when we look at the neurochemistry. What you’ve put forth is storytelling. Same propaganda vegans put forth because of their ignorance.

Elephants don’t have fire yet their brain is larger than ours.
Dolphins don’t have fire yet their brain is larger than ours.

If more calories = bigger brain. Then obese people would have the largest brain.


You can’t teach old dogs new tricks.

(Bacon enough and time) #62

I thought that the assertion is not that absolute size of brain makes for greater intelligence, but rather brain size in relation to total body size?

In any case, asserting that something is a “fairy-tale” isn’t particularly helpful. Can you provide evidence to counter the evidence already presented? Let’s have some debate, in place of the name-calling.