How do you deal with people trying to force you to eat carbohydrates?


#21

Pretending to eat carbs in addition to wasting food unless you feed it to a dog. :wink:


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #22

I am so busted by the " Tell the truth no matter what Police " !

Took you two days to come up with that witty response?


(Brian) #23

Kinda depends on the situation. If it’s a regular thing, I’m just gonna have an alternative handy and avoid the carbs as best I can. But… if I’m at a special occasion or it’s a very rare kind of thing, I might just, as Dr. Berry has said, “just eat the damned cheesecake”. I’m not diabetic and I do eat some carbs. I tend to avoid the starches and sugars but I don’t go out of my way to avoid stuff like the lower carb veggies at all. And I’ll bump into some of the higher carb veggies fairly regularly, too, with stuff like lima beans or maybe even a sweet potato maybe once a month. I just don’t get that excited about such things. So with that mindset, if someone wants me to have a scoop of real ice cream, I may just eat it and enjoy it knowing that it’s more of a “once off” thing, not a relapse into a high carb diet. And I’m not gonna punish myself later. Life is just too short.

Anyway, to each their own. Some people have medical reasons they can’t do that. Some have psychological reasons they can’t do that. I understand. I just do me. And it works pretty well for me. If there comes a point when I have to tighten the reigns a little, I will.

Just sharin’… :slight_smile:


(Bunny) #24

Here’s a different angle; there are actually 20 amino acids essential to human life, you only get a small faction of that only eating meat (and the healthier fats that comes with it) so demonizing carbohydrates (Whole Foods/Plants) is not a wise thing to do, wheat germ is probably a better way to go because you get the germ oils or fats?

When you do laboratory grade processing on grains to preserve them besides rancid shelf life and extract the germ oils you get too many empty calories that break down into glucose, then galactose…

I have eaten white bread on ketogenic diet which never impacted the diet itself at all, just have to be aware of the reactive oxygen species the bleached flour can create in your body especially it’s destruction of pancreatic beta cells if not a good balance of anti-oxidants like glutathione and selenium in the diet.

Bleached flour is probably the #1 cause of diabetes and why would they use it to create diabetes in laboratory mice?

Imagine pouring hydrogen peroxide and chlorine directly on your pancreatic beta cells? That’s exactly what happens when we eat bleached flour?

Footnotes:

[1] “…bleached flour is treated with chemical agents like benzoyl peroxide, potassium bromate, or chlorine, which helps speed up the aging of the flour. Flour is aged to improve certain qualities for baking. …” …More

[2] “…Usual flour bleaching agents are:

* Organic peroxides (benzoyl peroxide)
* Calcium peroxide
* Chlorine
* Chlorine dioxide
* Azodicarbonamide
* Nitrogen dioxide
* Atmospheric oxygen, used during natural aging of flour. …”…More

[3] “…Chemical bleaching of flour was first introduced in the 1906 Pure Food and Drug Act. This act determined a list of bleaching agents that were deemed safe and the list continues to be added to (or retracted from). Options include compounds like: nitrogen peroxide, chlorine gas, chlorine dioxide, nitrogen trichloride and benzoyl peroxide. …” “…Unbleached flour is still bleached… just naturally: The name “unbleached flour” isn’t exactly fitting. This type of flour is still bleached to attain an off-white color. It just uses the slow process of exposing the flour to oxygen over many months. Rather, the term “unbleached” is a way for the millers using the natural bleaching process to differentiate themselves from flours that are chemically bleached and can be sold at much lower prices. …” …More

[4] Bleached Flour: The anatomy of a crime


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #25

Nonsense! Animal proteins, such as meat, eggs, and milk, are complete proteins, meaning they provide all of the essential amino acids our body needs. Animal products provide the highest-quality protein sources. Carbohydrates contain zero amino acids. Carbohydrates are sugar molecules.


#26

It’s not about telling the truth. It’s about not denying what you clearly said.

I was trying to stay out of it.

Are grains edible raw?

Seems to me like you’re trying to find a scientific justification for consuming grains.

There is a scientific justification for consuming low carb polyphenol rich fruits for the polyphenols which increase longevity. Does consuming grains increase lifespan and not lead to dental tartar buildup, atherosclerosis, etc…?


(Bunny) #27

Before I answer that are you sure you don’t want to do a little more research?

Before the Monstrous Abominable Atomic Space Bunny responds?


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #28

I’ll give it a shot…

Carbohydrates contain no Nitrogen

All amino acids do…

I’m sure you will conflate that somehow to avoid admitting you are wrong…

( edited to replace Hydrogen with Nitrogen. Of course carbohydrates contain hydrogen ) )


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #29

You didn’t try very hard.

I didn’t “pretend” to think about it…

I didn’t " pretend " to put food on my plate.

Those are the two things I ( said ) I did/would do…

What did I pretend to do ?


(Bunny) #30

”…A carbohydrate is a biomolecule consisting of carbon ( C ), hydrogen (H) and oxygen…” …More


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #31

OOps… My bad … I meant " Nitrogen "…

I will edit my post and you can reply again… :slightly_smiling_face:


#32

Evidence?

My experience says different.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #33

@Consistency Surely, you jest. The highest quality protein is whey followed by egg whites. If you doubt this then google it yourself, don’t ask me to waste my time.


(Peter) #34

Two things:

Not sure if you know that you can scroll up and see the previous posts. Complex concept, admittedly.

Nobody said you “pretended to put food on your plate”, which you no doubt think is a clever way of sliding out from under, by changing what was supposedly said.

Quotes are a bitch. Speaking of quotes, ever hear that one about stopping digging whern you’re in a hole?


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #35

You win… I hit bedrock…
Thanks for the lesson in forum participation.

Good luck in dealing with people trying to " force " you to eat carbohydrates…


(Bunny) #36

I would add ‘more-sense’ (sentience?), to your “non-sense” ‘eating only meat’ ‘can’ or hence ‘might’ provide all EAAs for your personal body “needs” but not “our body” or my body?

Perhaps EAAs not in adequate amounts as the status quo states something is “essential” does not necessarily mean it is ‘adequate’ maybe something is “essential“ to just sustain the life of a living biological system to keep its heart beating so it does not die compared to the quality of its life and how long it lives? Essential and Non-Essential does not equal adequate?

Quote: ”…In the case of humans there are 9 EAAs: histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine. The source of COMPLETE EAAs are BOTH animal and plant-based food. The content of EAAs in plants vary as there is a huge variety of plants. …” …More

So it is matter of ‘CHOICE’ carbs (plants) or meat hence “dietary protein?” (meaning you can just as well get EAAs from plants as you can from other mammals by eating them but yeah why not both?)

Over 100,000 proteins interact and combine from only 20 amino acids, 9 of those can come from plant and/or animal proteins or both?[1] [2]

Although getting Vitamin B-12 from animal meat is more practical or you can get false positive adequate B-12 blood serum because folate is high and possibly undetected permanent brain damage could result?

Footnotes:

[1] “…II. Proteins: the macromolecule and the monomer:

Proteins are about 50% of the dry weight of most cells, and are the most complex of the macromolecules we will talk about, because there are 20 different monomers or building blocks, called amino acids. The way these building blocks (amino acids) are put together gives each protein its own unique structure and function. Cells have thousands of different proteins, each with a specific function.

Even so, all proteins are polymers constructed from a set of 20 amino acid monomers linked end-to-end, up to thousands of amino acids long, each in a unique 3-D shape.

There are 20 amino acid monomers: Each has the overall structure shown at right.

1. A central Carbon ( C )
2. An amino group (NH 3 )
3. A carboxyl, or acid, group (COO-)
4. A hydrogen (H), and
5. A variable region, the R group (side chain). There are 20 different R groups, whiich give the 20 different monomers their own special properties.

Click here to see models of all 20 amino acids !

Our bodies can make 11 of the ~20 amino acids - the other 9 amino acids must be obtained from our diet.
You do not need to know the names of these amino acids !

* Essential amino acids (must be obtained by the food we eat): Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Threonine, Tryptophan, Valine

* Non-essential amino acids (our bodies can make these amino acids): Arginine ,Tyrosine, Glycine, Serine, Glutamic Acid, Aspartic Acid, Asparagine Cystine, Histidine, Proline, Alanine. (there are 2 rare amino acids as well - Taurine and Hydroxyproline)

III. Protein synthesis: an overview

To form protein, individual amino acids are linked together to form a peptide bond. The protein chain grows one amino acid at a time, by linking one amino acid’s amino group to the carboxyl group of the next amino acid. by a process called translation (more about this later in the semester). A chain of amino acids is also known as a polypeptide.

Some proteins contain only one polypeptide chain while others, such as hemoglobin, contain several polypeptide chains all twisted together. The sequence of amino acids in each polypeptide or protein is unique to that protein, so each protein has its own, unique 3-D shape. Image and quote

How do cells know which proteins to make and which amino acids to link together? That is the function of DNA - our next macromolecule!

Two amino acid monomers…

…join together to make one polypeptide

IV. Protein structure - shape is everything!

1. There are four levels of protein structure - when a protein is synthesized from the instructions provided by DNA, it folds spontaneously into its shape reinforced by chemical bonds. If it doesn’t form into the right shape, the protein often does not work! (Figure 3.17)

1 structure - sequence of amino acids specified by a gene

2 structure - folding and coiling due to hydrogen bonds (weak bonds)

3 structure - bonding between side chains (R groups) “rivets” parts of proteins together

4 structure - aggregation between 2 or more protein chains

Caution! High temperature, pH, or salt, can unravel or denature a protein (loss of shape) and inactivate it -“you can’t unboil an egg”! …” …More

[2] “…Chapter 6. Protein and Amino Acids Publication Details

Both animal and plant proteins are made up of about 20 common amino acids. The proportion of these amino acids varies as a characteristic of a given protein, but all food proteins—with the exception of gelatin—contain some of each. Amino nitrogen accounts for approximately 16% of the weight of proteins. Amino acids are required for the synthesis of body protein and other important nitrogen-containing compounds, such as creatine, peptide hormones, and some neurotransmitters. Although allowances are expressed as protein, athe biological requirement is for amino acids.

Proteins and other nitrogenous compounds are being degraded and resynthesized continuously. Several times more protein is turned over daily within the body than is ordinarily consumed, indicating that reutilization of amino acids is a major feature of the economy of protein metabolism. This process of recapture is not completely efficient, and some amino acids are lost by oxidative catabolism. Metabolic products of amino acids (urea, creatinine, uric acid, and other nitrogenous products) are excreted in the urine; nitrogen is also lost in feces, sweat, and other body secretions and in sloughed skin, hair, and nails. A continuous supply of dietary amino acids is required to replace these losses, even after growth has ceased.

Amino acids consumed in excess of the amounts needed for the synthesis of nitrogenous tissue constituents **are not stored but are degraded; the nitrogen is excreted as urea, and the keto acids left after removal of the amino groups are either utilized directly as sources of energy or are converted to carbohydrate or fat.

Nine amino acids—histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine—are not synthesized by mammals and are therefore dietarily essential or indispensable nutrients. These are commonly called the essential amino acids. Histidine is an essential amino acid for infants, but was not demonstrated to be required by adults until recently (Cho et al., 1984; Kopple and Swendseid, 1981). Under special circumstances (e.g., in premature infants or in people with liver damage), amino acids such as cystine and tyrosine, not normally essential, may become so because of impaired conversion from their precursors (Horowitz et al., 1981). Arginine is synthesized by mammals but not in amounts sufficient to meet the needs of the young of most species. Although it is not believed to be required by the human infant for normal growth, the need for arginine by the premature infant is unknown. When arginine is present in small amounts relative to other amino acids (such as in intravenous solutions or amino acid mixtures), or when liver function is compromised, arginine synthesis may be insufficient for adequate function of the urea cycle (Heird et al., 1972). …” …More


#37

Sounds like kool-aid from the dairy and egg industry. I’m surprised you’d say whey which is high in carbs and egg whites which lacks the nutrients from the yolk.

Back to your original statement of " Animal products provide the highest-quality protein sources. "

So… Name just 1 whole food animal product which you believe has the highest quality protein source and we’ll stack it up against what I believe is the highest quality whole food plant protein source.

I see what you’re doing. Nobody tried to " force " you to do or say something you didn’t want to.

It’s like you did eat carbohydrates in the metaphorical sense and then denied that you did.


(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #38

Beef. It contains all the essential amino acids in the proportions necessary, which is the actual definition of “high-quality.” (Or was, 100 years ago. The vegan agenda may have changed that.) Very few other foods even come close. This is not a surprise, since it’s the food we evolved to eat.

There is no single plant food that comes close, although it is indeed possible to combine foods to arrive at a high-quality diet. This is why, for example, beans and rice are paired in many traditional recipes.


(Bob M) #39

You people really need to start following Peter Ballerstedt on Twitter. He discusses the differences between “crude” protein and meat protein. They are nowhere near the same. See here for instance:

https://t.co/0bk2JLOTyc
(https://twitter.com/GrassBased/status/1275814068775870467?s=03)

As for rice and beans, do you know how much rice and beans you have to eat to get a complete protein? Someone calculated it, but I can’t find it right now. It was shocking.

Did find this though:

https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/full-article/grains-beans-nuts-seeds


(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #40

Which is why beef is a whole lot better for us. I wasn’t saying rice and beans were perfect, believe me.