Honey is essentially pure sugar. Why do some people think that it has some sort of magical ability? It is sugar

uk
fructose
food
sugar
glucose
#41

No Ma’am, I didn’t think you did either, but I just wanted to use your post as an example. :slight_smile: :+1:

The main point that I was trying to make is that at times when we make a statement, especially when it’s something we are passionate about, that it can sometimes be misconstrued just by the way it was stated. And that we need to be cognizant of that so that it doesn’t make others feel inferior or unworthy when that was not the intended purpose of said statement. … I mention this because I do know it has been brought up before and it can separate groups within a given collective. Be it WOE’s or anything.

Actually, I mentioned this because I had witnessed some postings recently (Not on these forums, but from another site.) where someone had come in and asks some generic questions, but then got some responses back I felt were unnecessary. … My first thought was, this could push them back away and maybe leave them with the impression that those folks are just mean, ill-spirited blank, blank, blanks, etc. … Now I know that It can be aggravating when you have new people coming in on a regular basis and, yes, asking the same questions we might have heard a million times. But we shouldn’t come back at them aggressively because of this. It’s not their fault. - But yes, here we politely ask them to use the search function to look to see if that question was already answered, but some still ask anyway. :slight_smile:

So again, wasn’t targeting anyone, but simply mentioning it since reading through the thread I got the feeling some may take some of the statements the wrong way, as they were worded. And it made me think back on that other post I recently witnessed. So we are all LC’s here, in one form or another, and yes that separates us from folks who still believe in the CICO/SAD way of eating. But only in choices of how we want to eat, and live, not from being just people in general. :+1:

#42

Very true! I was very lucky as all my cravings, problems, non-carni addictions (as I am addicted to eggs :smiley: in a healthy way I imagine but it’s a bit illogical. I hardly can skip a day, I miss my eggs too much) disappear right away on carnivore. Except the stupid coffee drinking. Oh well, I can live with that for a while more…

And… I am the one who only do carnivore-ish (it changes in winter) and even have stupid off days (I don’t know why, it’s not like they are good for anything) - but I still gets benefits from this compared to my old keto. Keto only gave me fat adaptation, nothing else noticeable. The real changes happened when I got near carnivore. I didn’t notice it matters if I am near or totally reach it and strict carnivore would just stress me out and I would quit, the main thing that I mostly eat eggs and meat and maybe a bit something else. As long as my net carbs are very low and I don’t mess up my timing either and don’t overdo added fats, it’s good. I am in carnivore threads as my eating minus my usually tiny extras are kind of carnivore, the relaxed way though I do dairy-less days sometimes now. Carnivore isn’t my goal, it’s feeling good due to very low carbs and avoiding eating too much due to little added fat and good timing. But it’s easier to be stricter if we already lost the ties with the little extras. I have some left, clearly. I need my relaxed and a bit gradual approach… But I noticed being too relaxed just mess things up and being stricter may be easier and better. What is ideal strictness, that keeps changing…
Not eating cheese isn’t hard me - sometimes I have some reason for it but I lost my interest pretty much. But I cling to my moderate amount of sour cream for reasons.

I surely will get stricter and do it for longer in winter as I must try it out properly. It’s unknown to me what would happen and I am curious. I decide what to do afterwards. But if I can give up things because I don’t want them anymore, why not? I would need some super serious change to give up something I can live without but I prefer having it… But we can change and evolve so it’s possible to reach the (near) ideal spot for our body without sacrificing anything important. It may take a long time for someone like me but better than suffering or losing my sanity :upside_down_face:

(Bob M) #43

Saladino is all over the place. Now, he’s eating fruit.

But it’s not “carnivore” if you’re eating fruit and honey. Sorry. It’s meat eating plus honey and fruit.

Just saw a Twitter post from Amber O’Hearn complaining about the same thing: It’s not carnivore if you’re eating these things.

#44

To be fair to Saladino, he has openly modified his position regarding some fruits and vegetables (and obviously honey). His position is more ancestral than dogmatic adherence to a certain diet brand. Hence, it’s best regarded as an ‘animal-based’ diet. It’s quite unfortunate, although not in the slightest surprising, that he has been lambasted for doing so. So much for open-mindedness…

#45

yea isn’t he off in Peru or some exotic place eating alot of ‘good ol’ organic fruit’ or such? Last time I saw he is definitely a low carb eater now and off carnivore.

but ya know, many carnivores can go backwards and ‘do well’ on adding back in some items. But there are many of us who hold here because we can’t go backwards, any footstep back is a footstep to failure with our carb issues so…

but in the end Paul did put great info out there on carnivore, we can’t deny that.

@Jamesbrawn007
you are right, he claims it as a more ancestral (kinda like Paelo or caveman type menu) and I don’t think he is saying ever that carnivores should eat this stuff, he is just showing he is one who can increase other plant foods and do ok and that is his personal choice.

but it is hard when being told how well a plan like carnivore can be for those of us that need it, and then the head master turns and says, heck I don’t need it…ugh, that is when the left behinds have to cope with the leader leaving them…takes a bit of time to get the feelings under control sometimes LOL but yea, more power to him if he finds what works so well for him. Nothing wrong with that.

#46

Exactly. Nothing is wrong with that if it suits him. But mislabeling causes problems. Labels are there for a reason and if we use them wrong all the time, people won’t have any idea what it means when used and hosts try to feed us the wrong food. It can be annoying.
People have enough problems with (for me) obvious things without incorrectly using words.

#47

Is it? It find it normal we need different things and even someone doing something for a while may decide they need something else. Maybe a bit unexpected but it sounds normal enough to me. So many people change their woe and not just somewhere along the same line like me. My woe always got less carby except when I went back a little but never tried something drastically different. The semi-drastic changes all point to less carbs and plants. I never did a big jump. But others did.
And just because sugars aren’t good for me, they may be right for someone else even if they were carnivore before. Fruits are to be eaten, the plant wants that, they sound more okay than some other plant matters. But it takes someone to handle sugar (glucose and fructose too) well to be really okay with them and I don’t expect big amounts of fruit would be so great. But I know little.

It’s good I don’t have a leader ever :smiley: I rarely even follow any advice, I am a unique individual and my own body is my councellor. (And my stupid mental things interfere too. And my smart mental things try to make it better.)

#48

there are very few carnivore leaders that put a ton of time into the internet and books they write, and blogs, and forums to ‘spread the word’ of a carnivore plan lifestyle. So yea I put it as hard when one of the people someone reads a ton of back pedals into another plan, but like you said, it didn’t effect you and that is cool but for me, I soaked up every single carnivore person out there posting info and Paul was a biggie for me, now he isn’t :slight_smile: but yes, I hear you…we all roll differently.
I can solidly say others have helped me move forward in my health journey, I can never take all the credit for it cause mostly thru just regular ol’ people posting, the maintainers that lost the lbs, improved health so much and more and those who put it out there in forums and more to chat about science and more as truly those who lined my path for forward health strides. Silent unknown voices showed me the way and bigger posts and ‘leaders’ of carnivore plan were also a big help to me for sure.

#49

Okay, I took some little time to think (I do that while writing but not as deep and long) and I can understand it was a tad hard but not meaning you lost your way as you felt it’s good for you… To me, it’s almost everything. No matter what even science itself says if I very strongly experience different. My body is extremely clear about it wanting very little carbs and it never was different, poor thing just never met this low carb intake before. But it knows better now and I can’t imagine doubting this. It’s my own body, my feelings, it’s strong enough, no matter what others decide and say.

It may be hard to lose a leader, okay but main thing to continue the good work - if that’s what we ourselves need.

(Bob M) #50

I’m open minded. I have no problem with what he eats. But if you listened to his podcasts, he originally was adamant that you had to be carnivore, eat only raw liver, eat only raw egg yolks but not the whites, etc.

Then he started eating honey and said things like “carbs don’t cause insulin resistance” multiple times during one podcast.

I stopped listening to him after that.

He can’t advocate these – what I would call extreme – positions then all the sudden completely change them. You can’t go from “carnivore only!”, to “meat + honey!!”, to “meat, organs, honey, fruit!!!”. while taking strong positions on each.

#51

It really sounds quite weird… I didn’t know he had that super strong views. And I hate when others make food dogmas to everyone to follow, it’s clearly wrong. We are different and even at different parts of our journey.
I wouldn’t touch raw meat unless a few kinds and I have all right for it. And egg whites are awesome (I wouldn’t throw out food anyway, it’s not something I am ever willing to do).
And my body likes what I am doing on my good days… Isn’t that the most important thing? Definitely not stupid, anti-hedonistic dogmas (trying to follow some pointless rules surely wouldn’t feel enjoyable to me).

#52

of course it is and personal N-1 thru all, on any lifestyle plan we choose to adopt to change is key but at some point, WE ALL listen to others and we all also bank on similarities in our changes to understand them better so we also rely on others to cement in truths about our reactions on plans as we progress. We are on this forum so… :sunny:

different time line on our journeys is a key factor also. A newbie to any plan will never be someone on plan for a year or 2 or more. A person with med issues or even mental issues are not the same…who we truly are is super personal but alot of plan eating lifestyle change is very common and effects us alot in the same way thru physical body changes…

Key being there is a very commonality of ‘benefits and changes’ one gets thru chatting out with others thru experiences but it will never be black and white for all, shades of gray are gonna happen but key is IF WE KNOW others are experiencing changes as we are walking thru them we can get great knowledge from just chatting with others that are more like us than not us.

food ‘dogma’ or science fact is just that, diff. critters.
science fact is real…dogma can be ‘made thru personal experiences’ that can’t be true about how it fits to others all the time, but how food is taken in the body and effects each of us becomes wildly suspect as in being the only way for each of us to thrive and move forward. If we listen.

#53

Fair enough. I’m not out to defend him per se. I think he has brought more to the table in terms of scientific evidence highlighting the detrimental impact of plant toxins than any other carnivore ‘guru’. And, in fact, it does surprise me that many smart keto folks out there are still routinely recommending such plants as well as PUFAs.

Final word on him, as an individual, Saladino’s own reason for modifying his position came after signs of electrolyte imbalance and impaired thyroid function.

On the carbs issue, my understanding of the science is that insulin resistance is more likely to develop in mixed diets.

#54

good post James. I feel ya on it and each of us are so personal that ‘even an internet name to fame’ has to change if they must so…they must handle the fallout and of course, ALL US extras are gonna comment LOL

#55

Yep I found other people’s experiences quite important too. It’s often more real than some tiny experiment I can’t even fully understand due to boring scientific texts (I am fine with deeper texts but chemistry is infinitely far from me, sadly. statistics aren’t my things either. and I had exams in computer statistics without the necessarily maths, those were my hardest exams :smiley: logic didn’t help me out there… but I guess I got carried away again). It helps a bit to see how it goes with others. But we are all different at different points, that is important too. It’s amazing how two human bodies can react differently to the same things…

(Edith) #56

I’ve run into similar trouble on carnivore. I can’t say about thyroid function, but I just can’t seem to get electrolytes squared away when I am fully carnivore.

(Bob M) #57

Hmmm…The thyroid issue. This is a tough one. What happens is that someone takes a test and gets a result and something is “out of whack”, and they decide they have a thyroid issue. Amber O’Hearn has looked into this, and like a lot of items (vitamin C, anyone?), and this has conflicting information because this has not been studied to any detail for carnivores. She did say that at least one value for the thyroid could appear low, but this was not an issue for carnivores.

I can’t say anything about Saladino’s issue, as this is the first I’ve heard of it.

Anyway, I thought Saladino added honey because he went to visit the Hazda, who ate honey. Of course, it was honey they had to get from live bee hives, but it was honey. And they had to find it, traveling miles to do so. And they probably ate everything, including the honeycomb.

As for electrolytes, I still have a hard time with electrolytes, and I’m keto but not carnivore (though close), and have been doing this 7.5+ years. I still get cramps periodically, and haven’t been able to figure out why.

#58

When I had bloods done after 3 months or so on carnivore my T3 was on the lower end of normal, which was to be expected given the hormone is likely demand driven (like insulin).

Electrolytes haven’t been an issue recently. I did feel it when I drank too much coffee and was urinating excessively. Provided I keep that in check, and take a few grams of a very basic electrolyte supplement throughout the day, no issues. I no longer supplement with magnesium either.

#59

it is strange about the electrolyte issues. I never had one issue about them. I switched into carnivore and never had any ongoing issues once thru adaption. But even on the carnivore boards that darn electrolyte issue does come up but mostly for those going thru adaption time and changeover but I guess some people ‘stay more unbalanced’ as they heal internally? As the body repairs itself maybe it is also doing some unbalancing of those electrolytes? We are so diff. coming in with diff. med issues etc so pinpointing down ‘an exact reason’ for any issue on any menu change can be that unicorn answer everyone is trying to find but really does not exist.

#60

I still think all my electrolyte problems (not much just very rare cramps) is because I eat too little magnesium. For my actual food intake, at least, surely there are zillion factors. We may add something that would make the same intake less compared to our need that went up due to the little something… I suppose there are such things and others I can’t even think about due to not being an expert but they don’t know the human body perfectly either especially each of them.

I never had any problem with salt (except when I ate too much but that was an extreme situation, my circumstances weren’t quite right for carnivore but I forced it… and possibly 2 times in my life I ate too little. I will never know I think. I had no cramps then but I never get them if the problem is sodium, it’s always magnesium for me).

I don’t have any idea, thought, care about potassium. I surely eat little as most people, probably (the recommended amounts is huge) but is this a problem or not? I wouldn’t think so but maybe it does affect something subtly.