Hmmm what do you think of this advice?

#1

I have been a member on another low carb forum for years from back when I did Atkins! I started posting over there again mostly so I could participate in the daily weigh in challenges (I’m competitive lol) well one member asked what I was doing and this was her response :confused: what do you guys think?

IMG_2831.PNG2208×1242 178 KB

(Larry Lustig) #2

If you tried to follow that advice at the outset you would starve yourself and give up.

The advice about carbs and protein is quite accurate (the 20 grams of total carbohydrates is even a little on the extreme side for most people).

The advice about fat is incorrect. You eat sufficient fat so you are not hungry. After a month or two you should find that your body will be just as happy burning your own fat as fat that you eat. At that point, if you want to (and if you have a lot of weight to lose) you can begin dialing back the fat you’re eating to the point you’re comfortable.

But I would never suggest the bare minimum fat “needed” to cook vegetables – which, in any event, is zero, because you can steam them. That is simply the same old, same old advice of “just don’t eat and you’ll lose weight”. If you followed that advice, you’d be eating something like 400-500 calories a day which is clearly not sustainable.

(AnnaLeeThal) #3

Fat to your hunger signals, not to a particular macro or calorie count. This is what makes Keto sustainable.

Again, this flawed thinking (low fat, calorie restriction) goes back to the CICO theory. Keto is about hormones, not calories.

(Dustin Cade) #4

My lady is struggling with this very thing… she isn’t seeing results, even showing added pounds on the scale, her clothes are not fitting different “to her”… I’ll say this, she is dedicated, she is in this with me, she keeps on her macros with my fitness pal, I struggle to keep her motivated too, she is not eating dairy right now to see if this will help jump start more loss… she says she hits her macro goals and i tell her that if she is still hungry to eat more, till she isn’t hungry… I keep telling her she should not be worried about calories or going over on her fat, we are just under 6 months in…

(Danielle) #5

Seriously - get her to eat more fat! The days I have the best weight loss are after the evening dinner of 3 eggs cooked in 2-3 tblsp of butter with cheese and 2-3 sausage links (also cooked in butter). If you haven’t done already - switch to a grass-fed butter. Like I cannot even stress this enough. I didn’t even UNDERSTAND butter until grass-fed butter. “Normal” butter should have it’s name changed, it doesn’t even deserve the name. I will eat it right out of the dish. No joke. Fat is scary because we’ve been taught for YEARS that it’s bad. Fat is what makes this whole WOE work. Ignore the douchey carb-centric toolboxes and eat fat, bacon, butter, sausage and eggs. Add fat to chicken, steak, burgers, all the veggies. It really helps.

(Dustin Cade) #6

its my main advise, more fat… the last few days, she has been adding extra avocado oil to her diet… this transition to keto has been very difficult for her, after the keto flu she hit the wall of depression, this lasted from week three to about week 8… it was very very rough for her, she pulled through, so this is a daily battle for her, I’m always on the look out for more information to assist her… shes only doing keto to support me, she has weight to lose though not as much as she thinks…

(Marc Blythe) #7

I know of a case where a low fat and low carb diet caused depression. Raising the level of fat caused weight loss and cured the depression without medication. There’s a macro calculator here: http://shecallsmehobbit.com/2016/04/hitting-my-macros-deja-vu-yeh-updated-with-calculator/ which actually includes a minimum amount of fat. I suspect if your fat is too low and your carb is also low, you might be turning on starvation response. Good Luck !

(Dustin Cade) #8

yeah, low fat, low carb is a contributor of depression, though the leveling of hormones in the beginning stages of keto have also shown to cause depression, it took a few weeks and her body leveled out and she feels much better.

(eat more) #9

i don’t think the advice is 100% wrong based on what i’ve read on this forum
BUT…i believe for both reduced fat intake AND fasting you need to be fat-adapted for it to be beneficial…and not counterproductive (which i think a lot of writings/advice assume you’re already fat-adapted)

i’ve never purposely eaten to reach my macros (except a couple of times when i was attempting IIFYM…that didn’t work lol)
usually i’m under and sometimes i go over

don’t be afraid of fat, especially before being truly fat-adapted…it’s like happiness, sprinkle that shit everywhere and once adapted you’ll just naturally sprinkle less and be just as happy.

fat intake is just a tool but not the focus/goal

(Cathy) #10

On the surface the advice seems pretty accurate but it fails on a couple of important points. One~ if a person is controlling for carbs (say 20g) and protein (say 50g), that adds up to 280 calories (each gram equals 4 calories). We all know that is not a sustainable way to eat. So the other macro (fat) must fill in the rest. That means that the macro that will be most heavily consumed is fat. If a person were to eat a 1200 calorie keto diet, with the above carb and fat grams, that means that fat will be approx. 900 calories and that translates to 90 grams of fat and that means that a person is eating about 80% fat. Eat to satiation ~ whatever that might mean to the individual.

The notion that the body only used dietary fat and not stored body fat when it is present is wrong. They both will be used. Hormones dictate what gets metabolized.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #11

Tell her I’m in the same boat and yes, it’s frustrating as fuck when things stall.

The one notion that sustains me is that the body doesn’t want to put out too many fires at once and repairing stressed organs and rebalancing hormones during weight loss are two major dumpster fires for women. The body will always choose vital organs over everything else, so if your liver, say, has a lot of housecleaning to do, it’s gonna happen on it’s own timeline whether you like it or not, to the exclusion of pretty much everything else.

And it’s possible in my case that this is why my muscles don’t want to work out too hard right now, either. You don’t want to fly the jet until all the maintenance is done on the engine.

I’m doing my best to distract myself with other stuff, like writing snarky comments online.

(Dustin Cade) #12

downside is eating salty fatty foods is difficult for her, she never ate this way before… its slow going…

(Jennifer) #13

Dr. Fung put out that blog post yesterday and I thought it made some valid points.

Here is the link https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/who-needs-to-avoid-fat-bombs-and-bpc/

(Stickin' with mammoth) #14

Yeah, I wasn’t too into it, either, at first. When I finally craved it, I went for it. But before then, chicken 'n broccoli. Loooooots of chicken 'n broccoli.

(Becky Searls) #15

Totally my experience-was able to go off of my anti depressant with NO ISSUES after going keto and feel better than I did on it plus lost 25 pounds kind of “accidentally”!

(Bart) #16

that was a great blog post explaining why I think so many people stall for as long as they do, or even gain weight on a keto WOE.

(Adam Kirby) #17

I think I get Jason’s nuanced point, but to be quite honest it seems confusing to a newbie doing keto, particularly one who’s read Jason’s other stuff. “So you tell me that calories are meaningless and that LCHF is successful, and that fat is nothing to be afraid of, but now you’re telling me not to eat TOO much fat.”

(Bart) #18

I think it is wreck-less and negligent to tell someone that they have a free pass to eat all the fat they want and everything will be ok. Jason Fung did a good job explaining why in his blog post. Also I know some people are very interested in the guy who is eating 4000 calories a day and losing or at least maintaining weight. He is a professional body builder with a metabolism that is insane, 5% body fat and a stupid amount of muscle, Fung’s post explained why this keto body builder is not gaining weight with all that fat, and it does not mean it will work for everyone.

Everyone needs to figure out what works for them, all of our metabolisms are at the very least a bit different. One size does not fit all and keto is not a free pass to gorge yourself. If a person does not take the time to listen to their body, to figure out what it requires, how it will react to different types and amounts of food they are setting themselves up to fail. If a person only listens and follows the advice of a few people and spends no time listening to others, reading other opinions and research, they are setting themselves up to fail.

Take the time to learn as much as you can about the diet and about yourself, this will help assure success.

(Jennifer) #19

Right, a bit confusing. But it’s common sense really, We know it’s not CICO, because it depends on how our own bodies deal with food. So, most of us who aren’t fat adapted can’t go eating a stick of butter whenever we want. When I shorten my feed window to 4-6 hours I have a hard time eating enough calories, just don’t want to eat. So adding more fat would be a good thing just to boost my intake a little. I guess it comes down to too much of a good thing isn’t a good thing? Lol…

(Patrick B.) #20

It’s called low carb high fat for a reason… Bottom line…