Higher glucose over previous years


(Robin) #91

I’m totally cool with different opinions, but after you have your say, let it go, man! :smirk: Thanks for your input, insightful as always.

I have never been into videos. Or reading online. I am a book learner. This forum is my exception.
And my obsession.


#92

That’s easy, I grind some roasted pork (or any other meat) and voila. I actually use that as flour sometimes. But carni flour can be frustrating, it’s good if one considers cooking a hobby and not so successful experiments don’t discourage them. The food is still pretty much edible as what could go wrong with eggs and meat? :wink: Unless we turn it into charcoal but even I don’t do that anymore (I didn’t mature THAT much but I don’t have so temperamental things in my kitchen. I love electric stuff where I even can set the time).
Too bad I would like egg flour and that’s more work to make (I don’t buy egg powder, I only accept eggs from - as far as I can tell - properly kept local chicken)… But it’s doable. I will make firm sponge cakes one day (100% eggs, that’s my thing).

(IIFYM) Keto is very indulgent but actually, my carnivore-ish seem to be too. And not only because of the -ish. If I can’t make something using eggs and meat and maybe dairy, I probably can live without the stuff (I may not want to but that’s a whim, luxury, not a real need and it’s important, I can do without those things short term).
Well okay I needed time to reach that point… But adding a bunch of other stuff usually made things more boring (it was a shock right before carnivore, I took away things and my food got more interesting). Adding a few well chosen tiny extras does good though, that’s why I prefer carnivore-ish.


#93

@amwassil, I’m only tagging you, because you’ve tagged me. I won’t respond to personal attacks that are clearly beneath me and you.

Now, about keto being the way our ancestors ate, or whatever, I find it completely irrelevant. First, one will never be able to prove the stuff eaten then is like the stuff eaten now. The level if physical activity, etc. A living animal is a complex thing.

Second: I have a real problem. And some other people too. I’m trying to solve my problem. You may think it isn’t a problem. But nobody proved it isn’t a problem for my personal health, or even for a population health nowadays, long term. The problem: high BG.

To know anyone, or everyone ate keto in the past, or even now, doesn’t help me solve my problem.


#94

yea I sure get that and with so many links and vids put on this forum, I kinda thought, darn she must go batty when she sees all the posted info links HA HA

let it go! I sure love those thoughts also!!


(Robin) #95

GOOD POINTS! Today is today. Your body is your body is your body. (Didn’t mean to say that 3 times, but it works, lol.)


(Judy Thompson) #96

In glucogenesis, you liver converts protein to carbs whenever it judges that you’ve had enough protein. So in fact eating 0 carbs is almost a guarantee of glucogenesis unless you’re aiming for the recommended 70-80% dietary fat. Can’t trust the body, it’ll play tricks on ya!


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #97

It used to be thought that gluconeogenesis was completely supply-driven; i.e., the more protein we ate, the more glucose our livers produced. Now we know that there are other factors besides glucagon and insulin that regulate blood sugar levels, and gluconeogenesis appears to be more demand-driven than supply-driven.

But yes, in the absence of dietary carbohydrate, the liver makes the teaspoon or so of glucose that the body needs to have circulating in the bloodstream. It also stores a certain amount of glycogen to share with the skeletal muscles at need. (Liver glycogen can be shared, whereas muscle glycogen is trapped in the muscle cells that formed it.)


(Ethan) #98

That’s debatable. I’ve read and heard that gluconeogenesis is demand driven, not supply driven. That said, I don’t know what happens with the excess protein. Even so, I eat a high-fat diet anyway.


(Judy Thompson) #99

@PaulL @EZB It does seem like research is always blowing old concepts out of the water. Back in nursing school in the 80s studying nutrition, I remember being pretty upset that the best laid plans for macros would be reorganized by the body as it saw fit. Is it supply or demand driven? Who knows? Your metabolism has a mind of its own and when it decides you’ve had enough protein or not enough carbs, it up and converts them. The only safe macro is fat. Dr. Thomas Cowan said excess fat is converted to water and excreted through the kidneys. So eat your water on the edge of a big ole ribeye :blush:


(Edith) #100

@Corals, first I want to say, I would have never guessed English isn’t your first language. Wow!

Second, I think your observations about needing to add some carbs back into your diet are perfectly valid. If eating very low carb was stressing your body, that could cause increased cortisol, which can increase your blood sugar. I did find it interesting that decreasing your exercise also decreased your blood sugar. Maybe you were over training and that was also stressing your body?

I have no evidence to back up the following thoughts, but just some books I’ve read and podcasts I’ve listened to recently got me thinking. For people who started keto just to lose a few pounds, but weren’t metabolically damaged, maybe long term keto is not necessary or even appropriate if they stick to clean eating post keto. I do believe keto heals. For some people, maybe their bodies are too damaged to leave keto, but maybe for others, the damage gets repaired enough that they don’t need to stay in ketosis or at least stay in ketosis all the time.

Keto is like taking the “red pill” in The Matrix. It totally opened my eyes to the reality of what I once thought was healthy food. I think is may be a natural dietary evolution to go from strict keto to say adding more fruits, vegetables, and tubers after a time, well for some people anyway.


(Robin) #101

Oooh, interesting concept. Makes sense…


#102

(Ethan) #103

What’s missing is that you can’t define “excess fat” there. Excess is not based on what is actually needed, but what the body thinks it needs. Fat can very much just be stored as fat.


#104

Thank you very much, @VirginiaEdie.

The reason I’m trying to find a way to reconcile keto and a normal blood glucose, instead of just quitting keto is that I think it makes a lot of sense to decrease insulin. So, it is a balancing act for me: I want to have the cake and eat it too, meaning, low insulin AND low glucose.

If I’d achieve low glucose, then upon testing, find out my insulin was skyrocketing, I’d be very disappointed, because for me that would mean I was just delaying a personal disaster, increasing the probability of developing diabetes.

Let’s see if I can find something that works for me.

Thinking of what you’ve written, I was organizing my thoughts.

(Tagging you, @SunnyNC, just in case you haven’t read the post where I talked about this -below- before. I lose track.)

If eating less carbs can fix a pancreas by giving a rest to the insulin machine, perhaps to fix my liver, I need to do the opposite: eat more carbs, more meals, so that gluconeogenesis becomes unnecessary and my liver rests. I’m trying to balance eating more carbs and exercising less, or less intense, with the aim of telling my liver it doesn’t need to go on with the dumping of glucose.

Only this week I’m exercising a monster volume, but it’s just a week.


(SunnyNC) #105

It is true according to some studies I have read, even after accounting for diseases and other untimely causes. Like I already said, why would evolution optimize longivity over survival of race. Just because ancestors did not wear shoes doesn’t mean shoes aren’t great for modern day living to optimize running and reduce impact in joints. I am getting tired of this ancestor argument Paleo and keto folks always use. And I thought Vegans are annoying with their BS claims about how meat is bad. If you are truly living like a paleolithic person, I’ll be happy to discuss.


(SunnyNC) #107

I don’t agree GNG is ONLY demand driven. Supply has a part to play. I have read comments from so many people on various keto forums FBG is higher when we eating too much protein. Happens to me as well. Why do you think our body will simply excrete and waste excess protein? Maybe it is demand driven for some folks but not all. I highly doubt that human body is stupid enough to excrete excess protein instead of storing it as energy via GNG. If it so happens your body is stupid that way, LUCKY YOU! :slight_smile:
My CGM and Ketomojo doesn’t lie regardless of what the “experts” state. Another false and dangerous myth being spread by Keto “experts” all over the internet.


(Robin) #108

There is no cause to start bashing others or their opinions. Play nice.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #109

#110

Now I am really curious what actually happens with the excess protein. It’s not so hard for me to eat very much extra and it’s not like I can avoid it, it just happens.
I just know that it definitely doesn’t feel like eating extra carbs. It’s way better. It’s much better than eating only adequate protein too. One may say maybe I need a surprisingly high amount but eating 120g and 220g feels the same too (as long as I eat right to be satiated in both cases)…

It makes sense that a smart body uses the food but well, mine must be stupid too as it doesn’t gain fat like crazy when I seriously overeat… I actually like that. Don’t like wastefulness, I try not to overeat but it’s just impossible for me to do, it happens sometimes.


(Linda ) #111

Well dr cywes low fat high fat worked for turning my a1c around but his 3 days on 3 days off did not it left me in a state of almost binge eating and craving fat.
One day on one day of also didnt help with the hunger so I went one meal higher fat and one meal lower…

How he explained it to me is after a time of our body’s not eating carbs and sugar our muscles refuse to take any glucose in so we get to a place that we got to force our bodies to use some of the glucose we making in the liver …so you drop back the preferred fuel which is now fat and the body has to burn sugar so it pulls it from your blood…
Then you switch it up and give it a meal/ few of its fat it prefers and I found too many meals I started craving fat.
The result for me was my fasting Insulin dropped my a1c dropped my uric acid dropped my triglycerides dropped, even my ldl dropped a bit…
But it did mess up my siatety its taken a bit it to get that back under control.