High Protein Modified "Keto + Fasting" muscle building with low fat

[Karim_Wassef]

The caste of tuna-spicing characters

Mix in 4 cans of tuna… scoop into lettuce leaves

[Karim_Wassef]

Pre-meal: 73G, 1.1K

That’s the highest I’ve gotten in a while

[Q66]

More relevant videos:

[kaclp]

shout out

please do your part to promote my health and well being…

No feedback, I just like reading about your experiments and I happen to like numbers

[Karim_Wassef]

[carolT]

Also, I did this is a hypocaloric state of 1300 vs demand in the 2000s… so to be fair, there was a deficit of 1000 that probably consumed any GNG generated glucose before ketones got turned on.

Satiety (check) came back on high protein, but only with very low fat so endogenous ketones kicked in. Again - this only happened after crossing the wall into low caloric low fat for a while.

Interesting! You are also near zero carb (except for your almond binges) so that might be a necessary condition too?

[Karim_Wassef]

Absolutely … all these results are in a keto state with <20g carbs. Carbs + protein are an awful combination for insulin magnification.

Rule 1 in protein adaptation for me is reduce carbs as low as possible <20g. Rule 2 is reduce fat <85g if possible (<35 preferred). Rule 3 is time to adjust.

Also - this needs to happen after becoming fat adapted via keto or fasting… for me, at least

[carolT]

Carbs + protein are an awful combination for insulin magnification.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Exactly.
You win the KF prize of the day (TBD).

[Karim_Wassef]

Day 5 - Friday June 21, 2019

Highest morning ketones yet! That’s exactly what I would expect in a fast … but not really fasting.

I didn’t share after the meal yesterday but it was good. The mustard, ginger and jalapeño really made the tuna pop. And who can argue with over half a pound of shrimp?

The only discomfort is from the pea protein. I feel like it slows my digestion down even though it’s got decent fat (much more than tuna).

Even with the absurd level of protein intake, I am just barely able to hold back the lean mass decline as I lose fat. And that’s with daily heavy lifting. I may consider dropping the sauna next week to see if that’s an overly catabolic trigger (like too much cardio).

So far so good

[Ilana_Rose]

I am just barely able to hold back the lean mass decline as I lose fat.

I’m confused by this. From day 1 you’ve lost 2.2 lbs. One pound of which is fat and 1.2 lbs of which is lean. Is this actually an improvement so far?

[Karim_Wassef]

You’re right… No. It’s not good, but it’s noisy

180.2 -> 178.0 total (lost 2.2)
140.4 -> 139.2 lean (lost 1.2)
39.8 -> 38.8 fat (lost 1.0)

So I’ve lost more lean mass (55%) than fat mass (45%) but that’s over just 5 days so not representative just yet.

My point was that the lean loss looks controlled compared to my fasting results (back in March/April) but it’s taking a massive protein intake to achieve that.

I have a DEXA coming up on July 6th. That should be a better measure. The 1lb variance is too small relative to my water flux on a daily basis. Basically, the measured variable is still in the noise.

For example:
Yesterday morning: 139.4 lean, 38.6 fat
Yesterday afternoon: 138.9 lean, 38.3 fat

The only difference was drinking coffee, water and salts/supplements. So I don’t believe that I really lost 0.5lbs of muscle and 0.3lbs of fat.

Real changes in composition happen at night while sleeping so this midday change over 12 hours is noise.

If you look at the plot of mass changes, you can see how spiky it is. Need more time to see a trend.

[Ilana_Rose]

My point was that the lean loss looks controlled compared to my fasting results (back in March/April) but it’s taking a massive protein intake to achieve that.

I’m interested in how it will compare to the high fat more moderate protein segment you did on carnivore.

[Karim_Wassef]

I’ll compare all when I’m done. It’s the benefit of DEXA scans every three weeks.

I have

1. The long fasting experiment
2. The cyclic fasting experiment
3. The mostly carnivore experiment
4. This pseudo keto + fasting protein experiment

They say you can’t walk into the same river twice (paraphrasing), so the different starting points & adaptations mean that the results are not exactly apples to apples… but it’s the best I can do with one lab rat.

[Karim_Wassef]

This morning was my first dry fasting attempt in a high protein week. It was really not different from the usual. I didn’t like it while fasting or on high fat keto … and I equally dislike it on high protein keto.

Hunger improves every day now. After the timing shifted from late night to midday, the midday sensations have been reducing day by day.

[Karim_Wassef]

Extended fast: 1->3 = -7.0 fat -3.7 lean
… 65% of reduction was in fat

Cyclic fast: 3->5 = +0.8 fat +1.6 lean
… 33% of increase was in fat

Carnivore: 5->7 = -1.8 fat -0.6 lean
… 75% of reduction was in fat

Protein: -1.0 fat -1.2 lean (after one week)
… 45% of reduction was in fat

But I’m going to give it all three weeks and see

[JRS08]

How long do your dry fasts usually go? I haven’t tried them, but heard they’re exponentially more powerful than water fasting.

[Karim_Wassef]

13-14 hours and it hurts.

This from the guy who did 19 days water fasting.

I don’t think it’s safe personally. It may be the fastest path to autophagy but biological systems don’t like “fast”

[JRS08]

Hmmm. Maybe it’d be easier if you considered your sleeping hours part of it, and just add on a few of the waking hours? Not sure if that makes a huge difference in impacting it’s benefits though.

[Karim_Wassef]

That’s exactly what I do. The 13 hours is 7 sleeping + 6 awake

[JRS08]

I’m thinking of starting soon. I’m already fasting, so might as well stop drinking in a couple hours and resume drinking tomorrow.