High Protein Modified "Keto + Fasting" muscle building with low fat

(Karim Wassef) #81

Nope. I’m too cheap. These are $0.63 a can on auto delivery from Amazon

(Little Miss Scare-All) #82

Yeah I spring the 4 bucks per can for the wild caught, pull-tops. :rofl:

(Karim Wassef) #83

Yikes. I’d get tuna steak for that protein content.

(Karim Wassef) #84

Wifey feels that 0.5 lbs of shrimp and 5 cans of tuna in addition to a pea protein shake doesn’t represent a pseudo-fast any more.

I pointed out that it’s 1100 cals and 84% of that from protein compared to my usually fatter 2000 cals and 50% from protein but she’s not buying it.

I argue that there’s no fat matrix at all… no sauces or dips or even a squirt of lime. Just bare protein and salt/pepper or spices (thinking mustard). Her argument is eating food you don’t enjoy doesn’t change the fact that you’re eating.

I think she’s unhappy that I’m cutting out the salmon in dill sauce for these three days because it’s too fatty… and she feels that my diet looks like cat food since I just open tuna cans and eat. She’s not wrong - but it’s still a massive reduction in fat that I’m calling it a pseudo fast :slight_smile:

(Karim Wassef) #85

Day 4 - Thursday June 20th

Even with the large quantities of protein I’m consuming, my lean mass is slowly slipping down

Yesterday was a little lower than my usual 240 g. I was only able to take in 200 g. Yesterday pre-meal, I was at 139.5 lbs and I wouldn’t expect the effect to be so immediate (lost 0.1 lbs of lean), so I’m going to set that aside as water weight fluctuations, but the general trend since the beginning of the week is a gradual reduction in lean mass

It is hard to get both lines to align.

Still, blood glucose and ketones are not too bad. BF% moving down gently. :slight_smile:

I am feeling the pain of this week’s workouts while on high protein, low fat. The deadlifts yesterday cause the strain in my lower back to return. I have good form, but even a momentary lapse in focus can bring a spasm on.

(Mame) #86

Hmm, I can see her point. In fact I don’t really follow your thinking on this. I can accept the term fat-fasting, because fat activates the least metabolically, but this… Perhaps using a different word than pseudo-fasting?

On the other hand, your experiment, call it what you want! :smiley:

(Karim Wassef) #87

it’s all semantics… I’m reducing non-protein caloric intake so it’s some kind of fast.

(Karim Wassef) #88

I was planning on dropping protein to 180 g tomorrow but I may have to adjust up given how much I find I need to not drop lean mass.

I find it very very hard to get to 240g of vegan protein without a lot of fat or carbs… and the protein isn’t even as good as animal protein.

I may have to consider a pea porridge instead of a shake. I think a carnivore that chooses to only eat vegan protein is effectively fasting. :wink:

(Little Miss Scare-All) #89

Pea porridge hot. Pea porridge cold. Pea porridge in the trashcan where it belongs, 5 days old.

(KetoQ) #90

I’m following with interest.

(Karim Wassef) #91

You any my wife would be dangerous… she said almost the same thing but cruder.

(Karim Wassef) #92

I gotta ask… is that a pirate thing? Or a goth thing?

I find myself imagining myself with an eyepatch and a parrot on my shoulder now. Never mind :joy:

(Little Miss Scare-All) #93

Is what a goth or pirate thing? Nipple piercings?

(Karim Wassef) #94

Pre lifting blood at 58G, 0.9K = 3.6GKI

I don’t care what we call it - those are near-fasting levels :smiley:

And that’s after eating 200g of protein yesterday. If I had to label it, I’d say I’m now “protein adapted” as well as “fat adapted”… just cause I like to put labels on boxes )and then shuffle them all around).

(Bob M) #95

58 for glucose? I don’t get that if I fast for over 4 days.

(Karim Wassef) #96

My lowest was 33 so mid 50s come quickly if my stress is controlled.

It really validates the theory of protein fasting as a viable ketogenic approach. I don’t see it as a WOE just yet. I see keto as a WOE and protein only fasting as a form of dieting inside of a keto WOE.

(Karim Wassef) #97

Today was shoulder and biceps

Front delt dumbbell raises
Side delt dumbbell raises
Bent over delt dumbbell raises
Cable cross - side delt pulls
Cable cross bent over back delt pulls
Cable front delt raises
Cable bicep curls
Cable tricep push
Curled bar bicep curls

(Karim Wassef) #98

Hunger is ok today. No weird nausea. I think that as my ketones kick up, the signaling diminishes and I get my energy from my own fat.

One nice advantage is that with so little carbs and fat, I have high confidence that the ketones reflect my own fat burning more closely. It’s sort of like the ketone confidence while water fasting but with the protein intake to avoid lean mass loss.

This is what I was hoping for - high protein and high ketones without insane hunger.

What I didn’t expect was the need for a 10 day adaptation period while I reset my metabolism here.

The data’s not all in yet:

Ketones (check) up signals that high protein will not stop ketosis if adapted.

Glucose (check) down signals that it’s possible to take massive protein and limit GNG. I think metabolic adaptation and low stress are key for this to be true. It’s also why different people report such significantly different results. Also, I did this is a hypocaloric state of 1300 vs demand in the 2000s… so to be fair, there was a deficit of 1000 that probably consumed any GNG generated glucose before ketones got turned on.

Satiety (check) came back on high protein, but only with very low fat so endogenous ketones kicked in. Again - this only happened after crossing the wall into low caloric low fat for a while.

Lean mass gains… (inconclusive). I can see that the rate of loss is substantially diminished, which with such a caloric deficit is already impressive, but I need to keep it up to see if I can go from lean mass maintenance to building.

(KetoQ) #99

What I do to spice up tuna – aside from mayo and perhaps mashing up in an avocado – I also add relish, jalapenos and banana peppers – and more importantly, a splash of juice from one or more of these condiments.

Often use stone ground mustard on sardines.

(Karim Wassef) #100


Without fats or carbs in the budget, I’m constrained to mustards (yes stone ground here too), hot sauce (Tabasco, chipotle or sriracha), lime powder, pickles (relish like), sauerkraut and pickled ginger… not bad but still tough.

I need a “creamy” substrate… mustard will do but I’m also considering marine gelatin to thicken up a vegan (or pea) soup.