Here we go!

(Hansel) #1

Greetings folks! Got my bloodwork back last week, no bueno! My A1C was 8.4, my fasting was 303! Yikes! I’ve had issues for the past few years, but yeah, this recent set of labs is showing that my Type 2 is getting out of control.

My primary and I discussed options, I told him I really wanted to try to make some major lifestyle changes first before hoping on meds, he agreed, so the goal is to retest in 3 months and see if we moved the needle any. We agreed to aim foset any fitness goals here, sir less than 7… yes, I know, lofty goals!

A little bit about me, basically a former athlete turned couch potato that has an ice cream addiction. I love to run, I love to lift, and I do not want to die early! My goal is to experiment with Alternate Day Fasting (M/W/F) for the next 30 days, which is Wednesday, June 19, 2024. On the feeding days, I will follow strict keto with a goal of 15 net carbs or less. Also, I will walk on my fasted days and lift on my feed days. Please note I am not trying to make any crazy fitness goals or physique changes, I am simply trying to A) burn up glucose and increase fat burning; B) build a small base of fitness; and C) clear my mind.

Today, May 20, 2024 I was 221.8 this morning, fasting sugar was 279. Let’s go!

#2

Welcome!! You’ve picked what I believe to be the BEST diet for your condition.

I’d make one minor change to your plan though: set a recheck to be at 6 months, not 3. While you might see the needle move in that time, about half the folks who do Keto need a bit more time to really see those results. Your body is going to want to do a lot of repairs and possibly your a1c is but one of many. It will only work on one thing at a time. Depending on how much there is to do it could take a lot longer. You also need time to become fully fat adapted. I did start seeing changes by my third month, but it wasn’t until after a full four months that there were definite measurable changes to my health.

I’m just against rushing. This diet will be great for you but you have to give it a long enough chance to see how powerful it really will be and three months just isn’t long enough. If you’re one of those that doesn’t see results until say, month 5, you risk giving up in month 3 when the needle didn’t move and moving on to try something else never knowing you just needed more time with Keto. It’s hard to explain. You have to experience it to understand. Give yourself that chance.

There’s great people here with more detailed wisdom for your particular situation that will be chiming in. :blush: Best of luck to you!

(B Creighton) #3

This is of course up to you, but I personally did not want to make it hard on myself. The most I fasted was 24 hours 3 days/week. And that was not really for the purpose of cutting calories, but was strategic to promote autophagy, and stem cell growth, promote growth hormones, suppress mTor, and suppress insulin, only to let the latter two spike after working out in the evening.

When I first did keto, I told my wife “this is going to be hard…” only to find that it really wasn’t. I ate as much as I wanted in my morning and evening meals, and did not suffer any cravings. I tried not to cut my calories… only my carbs… so basically all junk, processed carbs, and I promoted protein intake. Do this and I’m sure your sugar, A1C, insulin, etc will correct themselves. Do not be scared of using a little saturated fat for cooking… I use grass-fed butter and virgin coconut oil. Also use a fair amount of olive oil… bought a new container right before the price jumped this year. Do not cook with “vegetable oils.” Any seed oils I get come from raw pecans, macadamias, almonds, sunflower seeds, hemp seeds, etc.

I feel if you start with such a strong fasting bias, you are going to experience some pretty powerful cravings. A lot of people have a hard enough time giving up the processed carbs. Throw them out, give them away, donate them, and fill your stomach with satiating proteins and fats. That is the key to good health. You may not lose fat quite as fast, but you also will not lose much, if any muscle, and will find yourself on a relatively easy path to much better health… my 2 cents. It is wonderful that you have the desire to learn and change, but there is no need to make things harder on yourself than is otherwise necessary.

Welcome to the community!

#4

Good luck! Wow, you plan a way strictness style I did back then but I need a strictest style myself, I just couldn’t do it right in the beginning - or some years later but I had to figure out what works for me. Do you have experience with fasting? Single days are not a big deal, one would think but it totally can be (I am unable to do EF since I dropped my non-animal carbs and actually, my average net carbs too) and you plan plenty of fasting days. It may work, it may not. Why is the extra fasting in your case?
I plan something similar now (maybe not 3 low-cal days, only 2? but we will see, 3 sounds good too) but as I am unable to do EF, I will have fat fast days. They are great, convenient, easy, satiating, enjoyable… I even get some protein and it will be easier to get half of my energy need from my body instead of the whole thing, I may not have enough extra fat for that to go smoothly. But I am all for fasting if one can handle it (and if there are good reasons for it. I need at least regular fat fast days to avoid overeating fat, apparently. it helps with keeping my average protein intake low enough but few people need that and I imagine the ones who find it hard to eat enough protein may have problems with lots of fasting), I probably would try your style if I could. Without forcing anything, flexibility is important, if your body wants something and it’s a smart body with good communication skills so you can trust it, better give it what it wants. But sometimes poor body doesn’t know what it needs yet and need a tad pushing.

So, good luck again, hopefully your plan will work right away but if not, you always can tweak it to suit it better! Some of need a lot of time and change to arrive at a nice place where we enjoy the food, never stay hungry and get results.

(jay) #5

I second scraperdudes recommendation/approach, your body is inflamed, insulin resistant, and habituated to processed foods, exposed for decades of toxic levels of sugar… it took years to accumulate damage and it will take real time to heal, repair , and for your body to adjust a healthy human diet… but once you do, Man i cannot begin to list the general health rewards for me but they are reinvigorating and profound. That it is possible to recover the health of your youth, besides the endless evidence provided by the participants of this site, They have demonstrated the miraculous success and results of the Keto communities, and it was Keto communities that showed the pharmaceutical industries the biological pathways for new diet drugs…they studied how Keto worked and they have developed a way to charge $2,000 a month lol…but here instead, you can save hundreds on groceries, avoid possible deadly drug side effects, and to feel and move like your in 20’s again…Oh and there is one possible and major side effect you should be aware of…for me, at about 4-5 months of weight loss, keto, and exercise, my libido began to ramped back up to high school levels and have stayed remarkably high… no joke…lots of potential fun to be had!..i went from a inflamed fat pug of a man with a declining libido, that was considering testosterone injections to having “night dreams” random, embarrassing erections…so I’m not complaining …5-6 years into “Keto” lean and athletic, high libido, great overall health results here and my only regret is i didn’t know about Keto sooner.

(Hansel) #6

Thanks for the comments and suggestions all! Woke up feeling pretty good, slept very well. Fasted blood sugar reading was down to 229… I’ll take it, and progress is good!

(Edith) #7

I agree with @Just_Juju. We usually recommend people wait about 6 months before getting their lipid levels retested. It takes time for you body to get fat adapted. Until then, your lipid levels can be a little haywire.

I also agree with @scaperdude. Let yourself become adjusted to this way of eating (WOE) and let your body become fat adapted (which usually begins around 6-8 weeks, sometimes longer) before fasting. You may find at that point, you will naturally skip meals. You don’t want to force the fasting, especially while you are making large dietary adjustments.

(Geoffrey) #8

I have read and heard from several sources that early on in keto is not the right time to get into fasting. Let your body adjust to your new lifestyle. It’s not a race and you have plenty of time to reverse your T2, and yes, you can totally reverse it. This is a lifelong commitment to better health.
Eliminating all sugars and sweeteners, all grains and seed oils would greatly help to achieve your goals.
Al’s it is wise to give it at least more time before your next blood work. It can take 90 days for many to become adaptive to eating this WOE so at three months you may not see much improvement.
Good luck and good health.

(Jane) #9

Welcome! You have made a great choice to improve your health and reverse your type 2, instead of taking meds so you can feed your sugar/carb addictions.

My fasting glucose is always under 100 so never had diabetes to deal with, but the health benefits of keto are amazing and surprising. I love not being hungry all the time and being able to maintain my weigt loss without effort.

#10

It’s individual. I kept my usual fasting when I went keto (though it was only IF in the first time as I almost never did EF) even though it got harder as my carbs went lower. I am merely against force, no matter what and when but if fasting is easy and nice and/or there is a good reason for it, why not? I just didn’t understand why the OP feels it is necessary right away and I have experienced, similarly to many, probably most people that a new woe may be enough challenge without extra hardships. So if fasting is new, I only advise it to do if it’s no particular hardship and if the macros fall into an okay place that way. Not like there is a problem with more generous macros in the beginning but if it’s the opposite, yep, let’s not lower calories and protein if they are low in the first place.

This on/off fasting (3 whole days per week in an alternating way) is a bit extreme anyway, I mean, unusual, it suits very few people I suppose. But it surely works for some. (And I like it zillion times better than the methods involving starving days like 5:2 or PMMF but people love that too. Okay, I have my fat fasts but I need it as I am very prone to overeating and they are 1000 kcal, not 500 and 90% fat so I don’t even feel I am starving :smiley: ) Maybe even right away, we all have different circumstances, fasting history etc.

(Bob M) #11

Mmmm…ice cream One of my downfalls too. I still eat ice cream, I just limit it to less than 2 handfuls of fingers per year, and try only to get it out somewhere (no large amounts at home). (One thing I’ve noticed: I’m hungry after eating ice cream. This doesn’t make sense, but it’s true – happens every single time.)

I’d recommend:

  1. Keto for 3-4 weeks at least
  2. Not sure about alternate day fasting. The most I did was 36 hours twice a week. (Does not include fasts longer than 36 hours, which I did a lot of.) You can try these, but…
  3. I’d take at least a week off in between each week of 36 hour fasts.
  4. I’d go by pin prick meters and not HbA1c for a while. HbA1c takes a few months to really begin to change.

I was able to exercise at 32 hours fasted. In fact, those were often some of my best workouts.

I overdid fasting, and it took a while to recover from that. Now, I’m up to 5 days of week of exercising, and I haven’t gotten in a 36 hour fast because of that for a while. I do eat a lower fat, higher protein diet, with a few OMAD PSMFs (one meal a day, protein sparing modified “fasts”) thrown in.

Anyway, I’m confident you’ll do well.

(Hansel) #12

Thanks for all the comments, folks! I’m a bit hard-nosed, prior service Army guy, so I admit sometimes I set goals that are way to lofty.

One thing to note, I went on a nice walk last night, started about 10:00 pm, walked for 40 minutes, it was very relaxing and I actually fell asleep very easily after a hot shower.

Also, who loves sparking mineral water? My wife bought a large package of Topo Chico waters from Costco and I can’t stop drinking them!

(Doug) #13

We have a Sodastream machine that takes little cylinders of carbon dioxide. It really is a game-changer for ‘water.’ :+1:

(Bob M) #14

Yeah, the one thing I can’t figure out how to quit is flavored sparkling water. Look forward to having one each night.

(Central Florida Bob ) #15

It’s not something you have to give up on, if you really like it.

I make keto ice cream enough so that we have some regularly. Regularly means most nights and some weeks, every night. I use Heavy whipping cream, half and half, two eggs, allulose and Splenda. The recipe makes a bit under a quart and that gets divided into 8 servings. I alternate between vanilla, pistachio with nuts, dried apple and dried strawberries. A serving runs around 6 to 8 grams of carb depending on flavor.

A silly truth here is that we started doing this a couple of years ago, and our cat decided he loved it. He developed his own ideas of how the evening is supposed to work, which is that he sits between us and expects us to alternate offering a little to lick off our fingertips. So now it’s a ritual for the cat. They always seem to rule the house.

(Edith) #16

The master has trained you well young padawan. :smile_cat:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

Welcome to the forums!

Type II diabetes is a disease of too much insulin (hyperinsulinaemia), and the way to lower serum insulin is to avoid eating foods that provoke the pancreas to secrete it. That means lowering our carbohydrate intake. since carbohydrates are simply glucose molecules arranged in various ways. Insulin has a significant effect on lowering the metabolism, so as insulin drops, our metabolic rate increases. This is a good thing. We enter ketosis pretty quickly, once insulin drops.

This means that the key to ketogenic eating is to drastically cut the carbs. Especially we want to avoid sugar, starches, and grains. The founders of this forum recommend a daily carbohydrate limit of 20 g, and depending on how insulin-resistant a person is, that limit may need to be even lower. However, 20 g/day works well for most people.

Protein has much less of an effect on insulin when we eat ketogenically, as opposed to when we eat it with carbohydrate. So fat and protein become our main sources of nutrition on a ketogenic diet. Fatty acids are actually a better source of energy for the body than glucose, since they are metabolised more cleanly and they have a negligible effect on insulin secretion, no more than is necessary to sustain life.

This means that a ketogenic diet can safely be eaten to satiety, without worrying about calories. At first you will probably need to eat a lot, but as you go on and your appetite hormones re-regulate themselves, you will find your appetite naturally dropping, to allow your body to metabolise both the fat in your diet and the excess fat in your adipocytes. This, combined with the higher metabolic rate permitted in the absence of insulin allows us to lose fat without hunger. In fact, restricting our calories can actually inhibit fat loss.

Just a word of advice: Don’t try to fast at first. Wait until you find yourself skipping meals without thinking about it. That will make the whole process much easier. Starting a ketogenic diet puts enough stress on the body; you don’t want to add to it. Similarly, our skeletal muscles need to heal to the point where they can efficiently metabolise fatty acids again. This process of keto-adaptation or fat-adaptation takes most people six to eight weeks. During this time, be sure not to over-excercise, since, again, it’s not a good idea to over-stress the body. You will know when it’s time to start working harder again. In any case, while exercise has many great benefits, promoting fat loss is not one of them.

#18

Why wouldn’t it make sense? Of course you do as you eat the wrong ice cream and maybe not even eat it as part of a big satiating meal :smiley:
Carbs always made me hungry (even after a big carni meal) and I suppose your ice cream has them…? IDK why, ice cream needs a lot of fat and protein but carbs seem very much unnecessary in bigger amounts (of course some is needed for sweetness and creaminess, sometimes for flavor as fruits).

Me, me! Well I buy simple carbonated water in reusable bottles but it’s so, so nice. It feels better for my thirst, even! I still mostly drink tap water and other things but I like to keep the carbonated water around.

(Jane) #19

I agree. I didn’t start fasting until I was about 8 months into keto. I knew I was fat-adapted when I forgot to eat lunch one day at work (and I didn’t have breakfast). First time in my life I ever FORGOT.TO.EAT!!! :rofl:

#20

I never could forget eating and fasting always is a very conscious, planned push (except on high-carb where it came naturally). I fast when it comes easily, that’s about it. I never changed my fasting pattern when I had a drastic food choice change already but it’s me :smiley: I never did a super drastic change to begin with, keto meant cutting my carb intake into half.

Fat adaptation changed my hunger for the better but I still got hungry at the usual time. My eating window diminished though. Then on carnivore(-ish) it got bigger again, on average at least… And now that I eat meatier it is smaller again…These are individual and I am sure extended fasting as a newbie ketoer suits some people. Probably not many especially when it’s new. As if it’s the normal for someone, of course they should keep it unless it suddenly gets hard or cause other problems.
Intermittent fasting is another matter, that’s pretty normal in my eyes (as I badly need it). But of course if it causes problems, one should stop (or don’t start) it.