Hello from Florida, USA

(Tony) #1

Hello. I’m tired of the belly fat that’s killing me. I’m a 50 year old man and I am 5’9", 270 pounds (122 kilos). I was 280 pounds (127 kilos) a week ago. Although I am only 5’9", I have a lot of muscle mass left in my upper body and my legs from my weightlifting and military days.

Ideally, I’d like to lose 50 pounds (22 kilos) to 70 pounds (30 kilos).

I’m new to Keto and I think I’m doing dirty Keto, or maybe not. I’m just trying to cut all carbs and sugars out as much as possible. I’m limiting myself to about 2,000 calories a day and some days I keep my pre-net carbs in the teens while other days it’s up around 50 (still 35 after net carbs).

I’m making newbie mistakes, like drinking gatorade zero and buying Stevia that has maltodextrin and others I don’t even know about yet.

I try to stick to an 18 hour fast with only 2 meals; one at noon and one at 6 PM. Some days I don’t eat until 7PM

I’m still trying to sort out how many electrolytes I need. I bought almost all the ingredients to make homemade electrolyte mix.

I was a little downtrodden this evening. I checked my lose-it app and after putting in all my food for the day, it said I consumed 15 grams of hidden sugars. Apparently half of it came from my spaghetti squash, avocado, balsamic vinegar, cucumber and yellow onion (according to the app).

Should I ignore the sugar measurement and just focus on the net carbs? Today was a 51 gram carb day with a net carb count of 34 grams.

Looking forward to sharing and learning!

Tony.

(KM) #2

Hey, welcome!

It sounds like you’re off to a good start. Cutting out added sugar is an excellent idea no matter what, but if you want to be in ketosis you do need to pay attention to your overall carb consumption regardless of the source. People differ in their carb tolerance, some track net carbs and some total carbs. The usual recommended starting point is 20 net carbs, just about everyone will be in ketosis at that level. It sounds like you are seeing some results already, it’s likely you are experiencing ketosis with what you are doing.

It’s true that ‘clean keto’ is probably better for your health, but getting the weight off will be a wonderful step in the right direction even if there are some questionable ingredients in there. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good and all that!

Good luck, and enjoy the forum. You will get lots of support and all the information you could possibly want. :grin:

#3

It seems you are doing right. I don’t think those are hidden sugar, well it depends if one knows that plants are carby :slight_smile: Of course if you eat vegs, you get carbs, not even a little bit unless your amount is super tiny. I stopped eating veggie dishes and still got 25g (net carbs, I never counted total, that was quite high and it hardly was a problem) from vegs alone when I was a newbie. It’s so much better without them for me.
15g sugar is pretty low if you ask me, I eat way more even on carnivore sometimes (although it means my net and total carbs are the same as my sugar intake)… But I am me, of course, not the average one, no matter my diet… :upside_down_face: Just saying. 15g sugar is super easy to get. And in my case, animal sugar doesn’t feel plant sugar at all for some reason. It doesn’t bring the negatives my plants did on my original keto.

34g net carbs may or may not be quite fine for you. I did 40 and it was keto but I personally needed to go lower as even those carbs messed with me (I felt fine as always, I am a healthy one but carbs make me hungry and may give me somewhat wrong desires).

But if you notice no problems, just get used to your keto, do whatever feel best, maybe you will need to change later, you will see.

Good luck!

(Robin) #4

Hello and welcome!
If limiting the meals is easy, that’s great. If not, it will often happen naturally. Yes, veggies and fruit are surprisingly carb heavy. That’s probably why many here find themselves in carnivore land without meaning to.

Don’t worry too much about calories… unless you’re under-eating. That will sabotage your efforts. Eat when you’re truly hungry.

Some people jump into keto with both feet and do allll the right things at once. Others can begin with one simple step like giving up sweets. It’s all improvement and will get you where you want to be.

Maybe limit how often you look at the scales. There will be ups and downs… it’s the trend that counts.

Glad you’re here.
You got this!

#5

Hi & welcome! Well done, sounds as if you’re off to a good start!
I did keto for a couple of years, found it too hard & gave up, now back to it for the long haul hopefully!
I’ll just share the mistakes I made first time in case it helps you…I had done some fasting before keto, so first time I went straight into it & doing extended fasts to lose weight, rather than thinking about getting used to using ketones for fuel, & healing my metabolism. So whenever I didn’t do fasting, the weight went back on. This time I’m not fasting, & have lost a bit, plus I feel so much more controlled with my eating - not starving all the time & then overeating after a fast… putting weight back on as soon as I eat 3 small meals a day etc. So maybe for you it might help to concentrate on getting the carbs right rather than worrying about your calories?
Also last time I had sweeteners & did baking/ desserts etc thinking it would help me do keto long term, but that was a mistake I’m not making this time, as I didn’t ever get rid of my sweet tooth, & craved sweet stuff even more, whereas now I want to lose that temptation completely! From what I’ve read some sweeteners can still cause an insulin response, I don’t know if it’s only certain ones, or all if someone is susceptible, but I want to avoid them as much as possible…
I’m trying not to obsess about the scales too this time, but look on this as a long journey rather than getting weight off as fast as possible.
I don’t know if any of that will help you, but good luck in your journey!

(Tony) #6

Thanks! I appreciate any and all advice that you all have learned from your experiences. As for the fasting, Before starting Keto, I normally skipped breakfast and ate somewhere between 10AM and noon. No real set schedule. I tried to eat no later than 6PM but sometimes as late as 8PM. It all depended on when my wife got home from work or if we decided to eat without her, or if I cooked dinner early enough.

I homeschool my son and work from home, so my workload is divided between work, teaching and cleaning, grocery shopping and cooking meals for everyone.

Since I don’t eat breakfast, an 18 hour fast hasn’t been a struggle for me. It seems my big mistake was in my quality and quantity of eating. I ate A LOT of fruit! bananas, figs, berries, watermelon and pineapple. I avoided bread whenever possible with maybe a sub sandwich once every 2 weeks or so. I don’t drink sodas but I was consuming a lot of Gatorade since I live in a very hot and humid environment. I cut out evening snacking over a year ago anyway. I avoided potatoes a lot but if the wife cooked something with potatoes in it, I’d eat them as well as include them in my Beef Bourguignon.

We don’t eat fast food but I can throw down some serious Mexican food with beans and rice. My wife is also Brazilian which means rice and beans are made frequently in this house.

I don’t normally eat cookies or sweets and I don’t buy them, but if they’re around and they’re moist, I’ll eat them in passing. Maybe 2 or 3 a day. The wife would come home with a family pack of chocolate chip cookies. We finally had a heated exchange about it this weekend and she agreed not to bring home sweets anymore (except the ice cream, which only she eats).

But since cutting all obvious carbs and sugars, things are going well. I’m hoping to just keep tweaking my meals and habits to finally obtain the goals I’ve wanted for 20 years.

Tony.

#7

Tony, The keto journey can be very rewarding and at the same time very frustrating. I am a numbers person, so I need to see the data. I started the keto journey about 15 years ago, under the supervision of a medical doctor and a sports scientist. I did a DEXA scan and blood work before starting. We wanted to know after 3 months what happened emprically. I also measured my blood ketones. I did not fast. In the beginning, I wrote down all of my food. (Hawthorne effect) “Nothing white or could be white.” The exception was egg whites became my motto. I was a super responder with regards to weight loss, and my aches and pains disappeared. The more restrictive you make keto, the less likely you are to follow it. I added olive oil to most of my food. Not a lot, but some. I ate lots of veggies and protein. I also ate lots of blueberries, raspberries, and blackberries regularly. I did not measure my carb intake. I did measure my protein intake in the beginning. After 3 years or so, I started some IF and some extended days (5- days every quarter). I stopped this as I was losing muscle mass, as confirmed by my DEXA scans.
I would get comfortable with keto first before fasting or time-restrictive eating. For me and some of the research shows that shifting your fasting window and eating your first meal in the morning is better for you. I also found that if I had 25-30 grams of protein in the morning, it set me up for success for the rest of the day. I measured my blood ketones and weight every for the first three months. Fast forward 15 years later, I do not measure my ketones at all, but I still make sure I am getting close to my protein requirements. I eat a LCH diet about 80% of the time. I am also concerned that I am never hungry any longer. It would appear that my hungry hormones are not working properly. The weekend is when my level of activity tends to go up, and I will have some carbs. My wife makes a sourdough rye bread that is awesome. However, I do not go overboard. The more restrictive, the less likely you are to follow. My motto now is “Eat the best quality food and minimize the junk.” I try to avoid highly processed food when possible. I take a more balanced approach. I drink at least 2L of water per day on average. It has been shown that it is the weekends where we tend to eat ad libitum and gain weight. Try and plan your weekend food so that your first meal contains eggs and protein.
Wishing you nothing but the best in health.

#8

Not necessarily. Sometimes taking out something that mess with us (like plant carbs make me hungry and give me compulsions) makes things much easier. One should be careful what to take out, it’s a sure fail in some cases… But sometimes it makes things better and much easier.
There are the items where one just can’t stop (without extreme effort for the ones who are willing to do that. I don’t) before getting too many carbs, it’s easier to skip those. At least until one learns to have them in moderation but it’s possible it turns out those items aren’t even so important…

#9

Yes, you don’t have to be obsessively anal about it, same goes for the stevia with a little bit of maltodextrin in it, Maltodextrin is a VERY fast carb, you’ll incinerate that as fast as you consume it, a slower carb will bite you much worse. No shortage of people do varying versions of keto like cyclical and targeted keto, mainly those of us serious about weight lifting, fast carbs run their course, give you a faster burning energy source than fat, but then they’re gone and You’re back in ketosis. Even on your 50g days, that’s literally nothing.

The 20g “magic” world falling apart thing is made up. How much you can consume and still consume and spend most of your time in ketosis is individual. Mainly activity driven.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #10

Hello TonyBen … A famous UK politician was called the same!

I try to be careful with the sugars, Don’t trust anything, read every label is my advice. The reason I’m a little strict is because you can relax and let things slip badly.
Amazing health benefits are to be had!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

Welcome to the forums!

Your goal seems eminently attainable with a ketogenic diet.

The more strictly you can eliminate sugar, starches, and grains from your diet, the more likely you are to progress toward your goal.

When we eat carbohydrate to excess, it gets stored as fat (think of a bear eating berries to fatten up for winter). On a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet, where one is consuming under 20 g/day of carbohydrate, counting calories is not necessary, because our insulin response is so low that we can trust our appetite again to tell us how much to eat. Insulin slows the metabolic rate, so eating in a way that minimises our insulin response allows us to satisfy our hunger, because our metabolic rate rises enough to deal with the amount of food we eat.

Keeping salt intake in the right range goes a long way to regulating all electrolytes. Studies have shown that the healthiest sodium intake is in the range of 4-6 g/day, which translates to 10-15 g/day of table salt (sodium chloride), including the salt already present in our food.

Getting enough salt prevents the keto “flu,” which is really symptoms of sodium deficiency. Too little salt can cause headaches, dizziness, and constipation, so get enough salt to prevent those. On the other hand, too much salt can cause diarrhoea, so if you start experiencing that, cut back a bit. In general, I find that if I crave salt, it’s because I need it; if food starts to taste too salty, then I have had plenty.

I also find that if I am getting enough salt, then I don’t need to worry about proper hydration, as long as I drink to thirst. The body is an amazing self-regulating process, and I have learned to listen to it. Under-hydration and over-hydration are to be avoided, and we have evolved for our bodies to signal a great deal of what we need. If we eat a proper human diet (low-carb, high-fat), then the body is able to signal properly what it needs, because we are not flooding our body with too much of the wrong hormones (especially insulin).

(Tony) #12

Thanks! That helps a lot! I’m down 11 pounds now. I broke 270 this morning and I’m now in the 260’s!

#13

Feels amazing, no? I have found that stalls and even regressions are frequent, especially after the initial quick loss period, and it’s easy to get distressed about that. At least, I do! But as they say, keep calm and keto on.

(Ethan) #14

IMO, its not all that hard once you get used to it. Go keto, and have a hard limit of 50 g carbs, and hopefully 30 g - 35 g. No sugars and know that grains (wheat, corn, oats, rice) are sugars and fruit is a sugar.

That means above ground vegetables, meat, chicken, fish, and some nuts is what can be eaten. For fruits its strawberries, raspberries, and blackberries. I know I never worry about stevia , I think its great. Once started its pretty easy and can cut up 10 lbs / month while eating well… in some ways you could feel like this is the best you’ve ever eaten in your life. I know I feel that way.

(Steve L.) #15

Hi Tony, Congratulations on starting the ketogenic journey. It took me a number of years to finally settle on what works for me, so you have time. Here’s the one recommendation I would make that is necessary (it is for me at least), please please please buy yourself the Keto-Mojo promo bundle. The thing about a ketogenic diet to work is that we need to be in ketosis. We are either in ketosis or we are not. We have either switched from burning sugar to burning ketones or we haven’t. We cannot guess based on carbohydrate intake count, at least I cannot. Using the Keto-Mojo monitor, I have determined how many carbs and what type I need to eat to keep my ketone levels above 1.0. I say 1.0 for me because that’s what lowers my blood pressure from needing meds to normal. Again it took me several years to figure this all out. The other thing I would highly recommend is wearing a CGM. I have worn one for several years and it hugely informs my food choices. I recently bought and wore the just released over-the-counter stelo made by DexCom. It works very well indeed. I have also used the Libre 2, the Libre 3, and the DexCom 7. My only criticism of the stelo is that I cannot share my data in real time with my sobriety buddy Karen. She and I are type 2s and sharing our data with each other really has helped us with accountability. I have written DexCom and asked them to make it possible to share data like one can using their DexCom 7 device with their Clarity app. But for the purpose of tracking what each food does to our glucose curve, I can highly recommend the stelo. I wish it weren’t $100 for a month’s supply for a one-off purchase and $90 for the subscription, but at the end of the day I know that wearing a CGM is going to add years to my life. I have cataracts in both eyes. I had cataract surgery in my left eye two years ago. I just saw my optometrist and there has been absolutely no change at all in the cataract in the other eye, I can still see 20/25 out of that eye. Before ketosis, it was getting worse with each visit. I mentioned to my optometrist that I have been ketogenic since I last saw her and she said, yes, a ketogenic diet is good for everything! How cool is that, an enlightened optometrist. Dr. Lustig explains that cataracts are caused by high sugars turning to sorbitol and being absorbed by the lens.
Sorry for the way-too-long message, but I consider a blood ketone meter to be absolutely essential to the journey with the CGM not far behind. One doesn’t need to wear the CGM all the time like I do, but wearing one for a couple of months can be just the ticket. On the other hand, I do believe we need to measure our blood ketones on a regular ongoing basis. Good Luck, Tony, your journey has begun.

(Robin) #16

And now for the opposition: I never measured anything or checked ketones etc.
I only counted carbs… kept them under 20.
For me, I need to keep it simple.

Others depend on and/or enjoy monitoring and tracking. Different approaches for different personality types. Makes sense. Find what works for you. Enjoy the journey!

#17

There are sugar in all vegs and spices, eggs and organs and dairy… The animal ones are fine for me though so I don’t care about those (much. I have some milk powder obsession now but I will handle it). Some people may need though.

I never was for this restriction. Or which fruits can I eat. The ones where it’s worth it while I get very little carbs! If I inevitably eat at least 1000g cauliflower in one sitting, that’s too carby. If I eat 5-10g frozen banana in one sitting and feel content, it’s fine. (I had both as a newbie ketoer. I would have quit without my chocolate covered banana.) And there is no vegs I can eat a whole dish from, they are all way too carby. It’s good I dropped them.

So each to their own. Too much restriction when we barely get any carbs from carby items but we can stick to keto using them, isn’t right, I say. Carby vegs tend to be WAY tastier (it depends, of course, it’s according to my taste) so they worth it more than low-carb ones. Except when I really need a noticeable volume.

IF one can skip carbier items easily enough (or not easily but there is a huge reward), good for them! The same for sweeteners. But it’s just a bad idea for some of us. It’s needed to be good with moderation, though. At least I had that for rich, tasty, carbier things (if not, it’s a ban). And one may be able to learn and change. Not everyone regarding everything, of course. Skipping things is surely simpler but it may be too hard or just outright impossible.

(Ethan) #18

The guy I learned most of my keto from is Dr Ken Berry and I pretty much just go with what he says.

For me, it just means I have to put food on a lower tier in life, and I don’t even worry about how things taste anymore. But fortunately its turned out to be not so bad.

(John Bradshaw) #19

Welcome Tony.
Education is the key to your progress.
Here are some free films that will help you.

That sugar film

Turning science upside down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-18NVEvYkgI

Doctor’s low carb transformation with Dr. David Unwin

https://youtu.be/QizJhk4DaUY

The origins of the anti-meat message

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1hoIFzn4Y

Are we blaming salt for what the sugar did?

https://youtu.be/gyZVTsHyLU0

Fat Chance (2017)

https://youtu.be/irRDbjG82tw

Ketogenic diets and mental health with Dr. Chris Palmer

https://youtu.be/p_fj6L5tvvc

Treating Mental illness with Keto

https://youtu.be/RGv2AuIGRSg

[ Take your time to scroll through the following lists. Pick and choose what interests you. Each one has excellent information and interviews done showing exceptional results in ordinary people. ]

Dr Eric Westman (Duke University, Former President of the American Obesity Association in the USA. Excellent on Keto.)

https://youtube.com/@AdaptYourLife?si=f8pRt9trO2knLm9_

Dr Shawn Baker (Carnivore, Orthopaedic Surgeon)

https://youtube.com/@DrShawnBakerPodcast?

Steak and Butter Gal (Classical musician, blogger)

https://youtube.com/@SteakandButterGal?si=H9lwC9p8WZ_QyAW6

Dr Ken Berry - a helpful Dr explaining overall health and carnivore.

https://www.youtube.com/@KenDBerryMD

(Tony) #20

Excellent! I’ll check them out. So far, I’m down about 14 pounds in 12 days. At this rate, I’ll be in the 250’s by this time next week which will have been the lightest I’ve been in 10 years!

Tony.