Have an OMAD Calorie question...with my specific situation

(Bob) #1

My current status:

Started Sept 1 2018 Ketogenic (2/14/84) 458 pounds
Slowly moved to IF 12/12 then 18/6 now 20/4 and two days a week one meal.
Today 412 pounds

Now when I read about how many calories on OMAD I found the answer varies depending on:

1-If fat adapted or not
and then
2-If attempting weight loss through extra fat stores or just keeping a baseline if there is little fat to use.

Specifically for my scenario where I am 100% fat adapted and have certainly plenty of available fat can I assume if my OMAD caloric intake is around 1000-1300 that the deficit remaining that comes from my fat stores able to maintain my metabolism rate on an ongoing basis? Understanding of course as I loose fat overtime it will slowly decline along as well regardless.

Like many I am fearful of loosing my high very high metabolism, which I assume is high as I continue to loose a pound per day for over 30 days now. I try to mix it up, for example today I am 18/6 and after eating to satiety I figure I had 2500 calories. Tomorrow will be 20/4 and Monday likely one meal, they 20/4 ect ect.

To be clear I do FEAST when its time for feasting and I am only water (with some salt as required) when fasting. My main goals are weight loss and leverage as much benefit from autophagy as possible (want to mitigate all that loose skin at the end) I do intend to do some longer fasts soon as well 5-7 days.

Any comment/advice to maintain my current progress would be appreciated.

#2

I think this is really key. Fasting doesnā€™t have the same effect on your metabolism as calorie restriction. Crazy, I know, but you shouldnā€™t have concerns about your metabolism while youā€™re fasting. It sounds like you already know this, so forgive me for repeating it.

Iā€™m pretty close to my goal weight, or I am and I just need to convert a little more fat into muscle weight, but in my experience I need to occasionally do an extended fast to kick-start the fat burning again.

I also think itā€™s helped me to switch it up a bit. Go from eating breakfast for a week, then supper another week. Just to keep my body guessing. :wink:

Personally, I think if youā€™re eating OMAD, keep your carbs under 20g, and donā€™t worry about the calorie intake (I mean, eat til youā€™re full basically). Do an occasional EF to encourage the autophagy and fat burning.

I donā€™t know how much EF youā€™ve done, but you can start off slow with a 24 hr fast, then 48, maybe 72, and see how it goes. When youā€™re really burning fat, you might be surprised how long you can go.

@Justin.Traer has a great thread about his recent extended fast, you might like to read.

Honestly Bob, it sounds like youā€™ve got your head on pretty straight already, and I think youā€™re gonna do just fine, losing more weight.

#3

This :point_up: ā€¦ is pretty much what I do. But to be honest, I actually donā€™t even think about the carb count much anymore. I did loads of research, weighing, etc. for the first 4 months, that I have a pretty good idea of whatā€™s what with the foods I eat, so I simply try to eat a nice portion of meat, with sides I like and have been doing well with. ā€¦ So some days I probably donā€™t exceed 15 carbs, which was what I was shooting for some months ago, but Iā€™m pretty sure I donā€™t go over 20 much, if at all. I also prefer OMAD, but also throw in the occasional second meal here and there, just to keep it from becoming too repetitive. This keeps the body guessing and not getting used to any set schedule. Reason is Iā€™ve read quite a few things about OMAD possibly being an issue with your Metabolism slowing? (Again, just stuff I read, but canā€™t confirm personally)

I also Fast quite a lot. (Nearly every week and sometimes feels like I have to force myself not to, just to give it a break) But yes, weight loss is nice or should I say a bonus with fasting, but since I still see similar weight loss when eating, I do it more for the way I feel when Iā€™m fasting. Shooting for Autophagy is also good, but if Iā€™m honest with myself, I think itā€™s more for the way I feel overall. I like the fact of doing only water and getting away from any foods or flavors, and (to me) foods taste very nice when I do go back to eat something. :slight_smile:

So, as Darren mentioned, it sounds like you are already on the right path and congrats on what youā€™ve done so far! And I concur when you say you feast, as I do as well. If you check out most of my dishes on ā€˜What did you Keto Todayā€™ (Parts 1 or 2) You will see I usually have full plates as well, and why OMAD works for me. :slight_smile:

#4

This is so true, Dave. I often feel like itā€™s time to fast when things just donā€™t feel right, and I know going a day without eating is gonna make me feel much better.

Itā€™s kinda the opposite of the idea that if youā€™re sick to your stomach, then eat something.

And, my God, I love the taste of food now more than I ever did before. Food, to me now, is truly a blessing!

(Bob) #5

Thanks guysā€¦

Its comforting to have confidence in my approach. I suppose its a good thing that there is so much info out there nowā€¦that being said it can be daunting, as what is most often missing is the context behind the info. For example the question of when autophagy kicks in, the answer like so many other answers to all this can be based on your fat adaption status.

#6

Iā€™m not an expert on autophagy, so I donā€™t really know this answer, but one day I decided to look up how long I should fast for the best results, and came across this answer on Reddit:

:astonished: WHAT? :astonished:

I suddenly started feeling rather disheartened. :slightly_frowning_face:

Okay, so I havenā€™t done a 3 to 5 day fast inā€¦I donā€™t know when. So, I guess Iā€™m not experiencing autophagy, or at least optimal autophagy. :man_shrugging:

But I do know this, Iā€™m eating better than I have in my whole life. I know my health is better now, than it has been in many years. I feel (mentally and physically) good about the progress Iā€™ve made and the way I currently eat (both allow and avoid).

I have no scientific basis for this, but I think how we feel about ourselves also affects our health. I choose to feel good about my current keto lifestyle whether or not Iā€™m getting the most optimal effects from doing everything just right.

#7

I believe, (and I canā€™t confirm this either) but Iā€™m pretty sure in all my researching I remember hearing that their guess was that Autophagy kicks in somewhere around 36 to 48 hrs.? ā€¦ I think Dr Fung mentions this in one of the videos I watched of his too? But again, I canā€™t say for sure, but do recall seeing/hearing this to be 36-48.

EDIT: Just did a quick search and found this link. Which is the section I recall watching, but just the section I wanted to show. The full length is a bit longer. Hope this helpsā€¦ :slight_smile:

#8

Hey Dave, thanks for the video! I like it when others do the research for me.

I am lazy keto, after all. :wink:

(Running from stupidity) #9

I will put on my journalist hat here, and caution you to ā€œconsider the source.ā€ Is it the NYT or WaPo, or is it Fox News or The Guardian? These things matter.

Exactly the video I was going to link to, thanks.

Well, OK, I was going to link to the long one :slight_smile:

#10

Only reason I posted this one, it popped up on the search. ā€¦ Else, would have posted the long one too. :slight_smile:

(Bob) #11

So to be clear on a Jimmy Moore podcast he was talking with Megan Ramos (IDM Clinic director with Jason Fung) and she cleared up that the 36-48hrs relates to people who are not fat adapted and not in ketosis already.

So the time period is more related to the time it takes to get adapted first in a fast then autophagy can start kicking in.

So that being said OMAD while already in ketosis should allow one to benefit at least part of the day from autophagy.

Edit: found the linkā€¦the part I am referring to starts around the 40:00 mark

https://www.fastingtalk.com/13-nausea-hashimotos-keto-rash-autophagy-normal-weight-calories-out-fiber/

(Running from stupidity) #12

I wish there was a way to delete anything Jimmy says, it would make these things so much faster and more pleasant :slight_smile:

Good info, thanks for the link.

#13

Thanks for the additional info, Bob. - But again, there is still no clear answer because no one knows for certain, since there hasnā€™t been a lot of research on this yet and no way to check to be sure. So itā€™s all still speculation.

But it is funny that Dr. Fung says on video what he thinks it would be the time frame for this, (24-48 hrs.) And you can tell by his answer, this seems to be his best guess. And then Megan states what she ā€˜thinksā€™ this and that is, and even says Dr. Fung mentions this as well. - But itā€™s still not consistent. ā€¦ She even mentions shortly after that, around (45:45?) that they donā€™t know but mentions that they do know Protein, Fat and Carbohydrates kills Autophagy ā€¦ But again, about one minute into the video above, Dr. Fung says you could ā€˜theoreticallyā€™ eat Fat, and achieve/stay-in Autophagy, since itā€™s protein that turns off Autophagy. ā€¦ So as much information that is out there, itā€™s all conjecture until someone actually creates a way to test for this to be sure. And it would indeed be nice to have a device that could do just this. Not to mention, make loads of $$$ for someone. :slight_smile:

(Bob) #14

Agreedā€¦

ā€¦though its still nice to think that its possible and is a by product of something your doing anyway

#15

Yes sir, that it is. ā€¦ The whole thing boils down to seeing the results. If itā€™s working, keep riding that train and hopefully they will have some better information on it soon. Until then, keep getting on and we can only do our best until something else comes into play. :slight_smile:

(stephen Ira Goddard) #16

LOL. I was thinking the same thing.