Greetings - trying Keto again

(David) #1

Hello, Ive decided I want to get back on a keto diet to improve my health and just feel better. So about 6 years ago I got on Keto - lost 48 lbs and figured thats enough and I slacked off. So Ive always watched my carb intake, try to keep it below 50 a day, I dont eat out at fast food places, if I dont cook it - I typically dont eat it. Im a type 2 according to Drs, so Im also trying to lower my aic and blood sugar etc…

So forward to this week - I started back on the diet, strict less than 20grams of carbs a day, lots of eggs, avocados, water, and proteins, Im still not in Ketosis according to my urine test strips. I dont remember it taking this long last time, today is day 6 so maybe Im just worrying about nothing. I had a Bulletproof coffee this am and went on a 4.6 mile walk and considering making today a fast day just so I can be in Ketosis starting tommorrow.

Overly concerned? Or just keep plugging away ??

Thanks in advance - David !! ps - nice to see a forum for this - wasnt one around way back when I 1st tried this lifestyle…

(Joey) #2

Welcome to keto forum. Yeah, we were here around 6 yrs ago and well before but great to see you finally found us!

You’re back to walking on solid ground. Congrats.

But you’ve demonstrated a basic reality of good health… Excess weight is not really a problem, it’s just a telling symptom. It’s what’s going on inside that really matters.

Once you lost weight you assumed you were done. That’s like a crack addict going clean for a year or two and then going back to the poison.

Type 2 diabetes is the evidence that your weight was not really what was of primary importance to your good health and longevity. It was just an exterior signal.

Throw the urine test strips away. There’s lots of coverage on why throughout this forum, so I’ll simply say that they measure the ketones that your body is excreting (wasting), not the ketones that your body is actually using. They will drive you nuts and mislead you. Once you’re fat adapted you will see little excess ketones in your urine.

You’re asking folks on a keto forum? :laughing:

Keep calm and keto on! :vulcan_salute:

(KM) #3

All good advice from Joey. Keto still works, and it’s still a great tool for combating or at least reducing chronic diseases including t2d. You got this!

I will just throw in that if you are using keto strips from the last time you were doing a keto diet, they are most definitely not going to give you an accurate reading. They truly do expire after about 2 months and start giving false readings (usually a false negative, they simply don’t react as brightly as they once did until they reach a point where they are basically beige no matter what you do, including dipping them in acetone). Some people find they are never accurate. A popular sentiment here is, if you are limiting your carbs to less than 20, you’re in ketosis, because basically, what else would your body be using for fuel.

Welcome, or welcome back! Best of luck to you.

(David) #4

OK then thanks for the replies. I read some about the strips and they are definitely going in the trash, and yea they are almost 6 yrs old - Haha .

I was wondering if anything changed really - I know the last time I was doing Keto I lost a lot of weight really fast - I think I lost 10lbs week one, but I haven’t lost a single pound as of yet. I can say I haven’t been hungry - sometimes I make myself eat something small just to eat. But I tend to only eat twice a day so I’m trying to eat 3 - 4 small meals now instead like I used to…

For the record I gained 15 of the original 48 I lost back but I’m only at 185 currently, Id like to get down to 155. My blood sugar worries me more than the weight actually so Im hoping for better results in the A1c area…

(Cathy) #5

Your first go at keto, you would have lost a lot of fluid is commonly referred to as water weight. That is the fluids that the liver typically dumps. It sounds like you have been low carb over the course of the past 6 years so you won’t likely have that dump happen. Thus the scale stays the same for now.

In my opinion it is better to eat 2x daily rather than 3 to 4 because part of the goal of keto (if not the primary goal) is to reduce insulin response and every time you eat, you will be stimulated insulin (albeit a reduced amount). So when you eat 2x a day, you are in fact doing small fasts and that is desirable.

(Michelle Dahlgren) #6

The initial fast loss has never returned for us either. My husband and Inhave been keto for almost five years. Sometimes we drift into slack keto but we dont drift into non keto foods, just too much total carbs. We dont drift into accasionally have social off keto days tho we have never done like pizza and real coke. Lately Ive done some intermitent fasting and have had a few one to two pound drop days. Those losses are really fragile and jump back on easily. I notice if i fall into calorie restriction/hungry mode then all loss stops and i get fru strated. After a life time of calorie restriction training its hard not to go there. I quit using ketosis meter thing. I just go by how i feel. If Im super energetic and feel great I figure I’m in ketosis. I havent cracked a consistent way of keeping loss going. I have 10-20 pounds to go and havent achieved that in over two years. I have lots of health benefits but not those last pounds.

(Joey) #8

Yes to everything @clackley said above. Nailed it,

Weight loss is not a linear thing. Eating fewer (larger as needed) meals is better for restoring insulin sensitivity… which is the most important goal for a T2D. Don’t lose sight of the prize.

(B Creighton) #9

David, Keto is definitely the way to address this issue. Since you have apparently been diagnosed as T2, this means you have surely become insulin resistant. This means the insulin will have to fall before the fat will come off. This can take some time. If you are curious, you can get your fasted insulin tested, and my guess is it was or maybe still is well above 6. There are some interventions to help bring it down. Try taking about 3 gr of TMG or 6-10 gr of creatine every day. Try eating goat yogurt. It is very high in MCT fats, which will turn into ketones and help jumpstart the fat burning process. During keto I eat a kale salad with my own homemade dressing using MCT oil, balsamic vinegar and herbs. This is a fat-burning salad. I throw on some olives and the cranberries it comes with.

One of these things will probably help.

Ditto on the test strips. Once they’ve been exposed to the air a few months, they’re done. However, since you have not lost weight, indications are you have not dropped off the glycogen and water yet - meaning you haven’t gone into ketosis yet. Be patient.

I have another suggestion to eat a lot of cooked cruciferous vegetables, esp broccoli, and asparagus almost every week. These are the highest in inulin in the common vegetables. Jerusalem artichoke is higher though. Inulin does not count towards carb calories, but will get converted in the healthy microbiome into acetate. What does not get used by your colonocytes will go into your blood stream, and make your arteries healthier. The endothelial cells like too burn SCFAs even more than ketones. Having good blood flow everywhere will help you considerably. My experience using these soluble fiber foods even with keto is that they don’t block ketosis, and I lose fat. Carb sources without soluble fiber should be strictly avoided. After eating your meat, try eating all these soluble fiber foods you want - I would wager things will improve for you within a month or two. I cook mine with grass-fed butter and Herbamare.

(David) #10

Yea thanks for the info - I’m taking notes and applying them to my diet and my memory. So I got on the scale today and I was down 5lbs since I started so I guess I’m in ketosis (maybe just water loss), though I haven’t officially checked it by urine or by blood as of yet. I can say I’m starting to feel a little different, in that I’m sleeping better, I’m getting more exercise walking 3-5 miles a day, and just feeling better over all. I must admit I have also given up drinking my Millerite on football Sundays - which seems weird but I think its worth it…

I know this isn’t a medical board - but my A1C was at 7.1 last time I went to the Dr about 2 weeks ago, so I’m trying to lower that, losing weight will be nice as well, but my blood sugar is the more pressing need atm. I’m currently at like 130 -150 in the mornings after fasting all night which seems really too high Imo. I try to eat dinner before 6pm and then I have a jello with a couple spoons of sugar free cool whip at night for an evening snack if Im hungry. My diets basically Eggs, Meat and cheese, some almonds, green beans, cauliflower, broccoli of some variety, along with a bullet proof coffee and a protein shake in the afternoon, then I try to drink at least 4 - 32oz cups of water. I’m pretty consistent with it and don’t cheat at all, it’s rather boring but very doable for me.

Im curious if some of the Meds IM taking are making this more difficult, i asked my Dr and she was non-committal to me quitting any of them and only said just monitor your vitals and well talk about it in Jan when I go back to see her. IM taking Metformin, a 50+ otc vitamin, a otc fish oil pill, another cholesterol med, and she just prescribed another one I don’t think I’m even going to pick up… I don’t like taking any of the Prescribed junk and feel they only want you on it to feed the Big Pharma Companies so of course she’s not liking my resistance to taking them.

Anywho - long enough for now …

(David) #11

So another update after the Tday weekend - been soldiering along and still am not losing weight and my blood sugar levels dont seem to be coming down a lot yet either. I stayed the course on Tday and only had some turkey and green beans I had made, no Pie, no stuffing, no bad things, so I was happy with myself.

I did get some new keto strips (just to see) and a slight pink showed this morning, Im nearly 4 weeks into this round though, something isnt clicking like last time.
I also got some Mct Coconut oil and some ghee so Ive been having a bullet proof coffee for breakfast for the past 2 weeks now.

My Blood Sugar was high this am again - 155 - I think because I had a can of (store bought Healthy Choice) chicken noodle soup that was like 17 carbs last night and a grilled cheese sandwhich. Its cold, I was being lazy, and I wanted something to warm me up. About to go on a nice walk and check my blood sugar after that and see whats happening.

I also decided to dload and start using the MyFitnessPal App / Meal planner thingy to track my carbs better… Cant believe its December already…

(Cathy) #12

The soup and grilled cheese sandwich would have been a deal buster. The urine strip showing any trace of ketones is evidence that you were in keto at some point in the past but not this morning according to your blood sugar and what you ate the evening before.

If you want this to work in terms of gaining control over your blood sugars, you have to be adherent to your carb intake and it is as simple as that. Having a carby meal will only set you back for a few days. If you are ok with that, then that’s fine.

I have a very bad period of about 6 years of spinning my wheels with keto. I would struggle and struggle to stay on plan. All the while, gaining weight. It was really bad and I did a lot of damage during that period. When I finally got back on plan, I decided I had to be really strict because I had learned that it was that hard for me.

I adopted the attitude that no food was worth the struggle. I read and searched out info on keto. I fully embraced it. I am so glad I did because I have been on plan for more than 16 years now. I would go hungry before consuming something that was not on my plan. I learned to plan ahead so I was never caught without. On some occasions, because life isn’t a hundred percent predictable, I would go hungry and know that it was a good thing. Fasting is a fabulous tool.

All this to say that I don’t think you are a person who can just be lazy or whatever. You already have a certain amount of disease that is evident through your blood sugar readings. You can continue down that road or you can decide to turn it around. Make a plan … every day and stick to it. As they say a failure to plan is a plan to fail.

Wishing you the very best.

(David) #13

I’m very careful about the carbs I eat, and I still only had about 25 carbs yesterday total, I should have mentioned I do use Keto bread (SOLA) it says 1 carb per serving and I had 2 slices. I had 8 whole olives for lunch, and a Bullet proof coffee for breakfast, and 3 -32 oz glasses of water. My stomach was messed up too after the coffee (had to go buy some diarrhea medicine - Imodium) so I didn’t even have an appetite yesterday.

But I hear what your saying and I don’t binge eat or anything like that, I’ve been on a no sugar, low carbs diet for several years now and my wife sometimes gets mad because I wont eat some things due to the carbs involved. That’s why I got that app yesterday too, so I can be more Carb Conscious, and make sure I’m staying focused.

(KM) #14

While I usually enjoy scratch cooking, I find it helpful to keep some quick stuff around that won’t mess me up for the times I just don’t feel it. They’re expensive but I do like Kevin’s Paleo (in the dairy case - sous vide chicken or beef, and a sauce). They freeze well, can serve up over shiritaki or shredded cabbage, five minutes to the table. (Or if you’re ambitious, make and freeze a few of your own “TV” dinners). Trader Joe’s has a nice miso ginger broth that’s a good base for a quick soup with canned chicken and a few veggies.

I’m always surprised at how I can get sucked into poor habits if the stuff is around, and how those old favorites truly do get out of mind once they’re not available. Hubs promised to take old Halloween candy to work and kept forgetting. Every night that Snickers siren song called me into the cabinet after dinner, but the minute it was gone I forgot it entirely.

(B Creighton) #15

I live very simply now. This time of year I only have about 6 different entrees I eat for dinner. They are simple, because I am not a particularly good cook, and I want to enjoy my food… so I keep it simple so I don’t mess things up. But, I do feel I have enough variety that I look forward to what I am going to have for dinner, and sometimes I will catch my mouth watering in anticipation. Because it is simple, I go to the same places to buy the same things, and always have what I need to prepare a fairly quick meal. That is how I address any temptation to cut corners.

Now for the part you won’t like so much - my advice. I believe for someone in your situation the best practice is to drop the coffee habit. The reason is that coffee stimulates cortisol, which stimulates epinephrin which tends to raise BP and sugar levels. Yes, that is without adding any sugar to it. It keeps the body in fight or flight mode, and the sugars higher, and ready to help you bolt away from that danger which never appears. People never like this advice, so there you have it.

More advice you probably won’t like. Don’t just count the carb grams. Any carbs you have should count. This means they should ideally be used on a few foods highest in soluble fiber - particularly berries, cruciferous vegetables, asparagus, and a few others. Eating a candy bar or cookie for your daily carb limit is just not going to hack it for you until you get around this corner… if ever. Obeying this rule will go far towards getting you to your goal… My 2 unpopular cents born out from experience. There is some good news here. With a little effort you can have some really delicious snacks like chocolate covered strawberries. Use either stevia chocolate or maybe sweeten your own with allulose, and then dip some strawberries. It is a really refreshing snack that is actually helpful to you. I add organic berries to my morning goat yogurt sweetened with stevia, erythritol and monk fruit sweetener. I never seem to tire of it. There are many other things you can do like this. Cheers.

(David) #16

OK - I was wondering about cabbage, i actually had a cabbage salad last night - we really enjoyed it… Think Im going to swapped the iceburg lettuce for cabbage for a few months…

(David) #17

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I wasnt aware of the coffee thing - Im only doing the coffee to add the Mct OIl to get me into ketosis faster. I actually dont really like coffee but I can drink it, Im gonna drop that idea as well and maybe just have the Zero Sugar / Low Carb Protein Shake - it tastes better anyways…

(B Creighton) #18

I eat a “sweet kale” salad quite regularly on Keto - I drop their sweetened dressing for my own homemade MCT, balsamic vinegar and herb dressing, and like you I really enjoy it - I was never really a salad fan before this. It has kale, cabbage, raddichio, and shredded broccoli/brussel sprouts which will provide much more soluble fiber than iceberg lettuce. Otherwise I cook my cruciferous vegetables. So, yeah, keep the cabbage. Good move.

So, there are plenty of people that do fine in Keto with coffee, but I only brought it up because you were having issues. However, I do not drink coffee, tea, juices etc on keto. I have the occassional coconut milk or coconut water which I sweeten with stevia, or stevia sweetened soda waters, etc. The MCT is a great idea, and I do recommend goat yogurt, because it is quite high in MCTs. I use pure MCT oil as described in my salad dressing above as well. That will make your cabbage salad fat burning :slight_smile: