Frivolous question?


(Thomi M) #1

I am just starting ZC and the food elements seem pretty self-explanatory, at least at my level on day three. Where I get hung up is drinks. All varieties. Coffee, tea, flavored (unstweetened) seltzer, Mio type drops, wine, hard alcohol. So “Eat meat, drink water” is a nice goal, but I am gonna have to ease into that. I drink a lot of coffee, water, Mio, some seltzer, and the occassional whiskey. What’s acceptable and what’s not? Looking for different perspectives and reasons why.

I really depend on a variety of drinks thru my day to squelch cravings and keep me on target. Just water is not going to do that for me. Not right now anyway.

Thanks!


(Chris) #2

I feel for you, it’s so simple that it’s ridiculously complicated.

I am assuming by seltzer you meant unflavored. Basically the whole idea of “eat meat, drink water” is to eliminate all of the confounding variables (usually for a month or so) and slowly add these items back in. However, if you’d prefer to ease out of some of these items, do it like this:

Drop the Mio, and if the seltzer is flavored, that too. Leave everything else as is, and drink your coffee and tea black. That’s about as close as most come to perfect. I don’t drink anymore for health reasons, but since you said occasional, I left it out completely. If you drink daily and have fat loss goals, reconsider frequency of drink.

All in all you have your head on straight, it’s all an experiment.


(Thomi M) #3

Thanks @dread. I have read a lot of your posts and you gave me the push to get started this week after thinking about it for months. I have a deep sense I will get healthier even than Keto has made me, and that has been a wonderful upgrade.

So no cream in my coffee? Avoid dairy completely? Whew! Worse than giving up carbs!


(Elizabeth ) #4

(Chris) #5

Goodness, I’m so glad my fumblings about were able to help someone! So good to hear.

RE: Cream. Love the stuff. If I feel like something is missing in my life, I drink some cream. That said, people handle dairy in different ways. For some it’s digestive issues, for others it’s inflammation, for others there’s no issues at all. I think if you’re going for the elimination style, drop it for a month and add it back in, you never know how you’ll feel.

You can leave it in your coffee if you want, if it doesn’t affect you in an outwardly negative way, I’d say it’s fine.

One final note on cream. Most of it contains plants. Make sure you read the label carefully, the only ingredient should be cream (they can mention milk too). Cellulose = fiber, has no place in a dairy product. Carrageenan = red seaweed of questionable health (I tried it about 30 days after realizing it wasn’t an optimal product and found that kind of cream gave me mild migraines after not being exposed to it after a while). Disodium phosphate = salt used to balance the pH and as an anticoagulant. I don’t find issue with the last one, personally but I could be a nut.


(Chris) #6

No one is going to fire you if you are not perfectly on a meat and water diet. Do what you can do,


(Genevieve Biggs) #7

The list that Elizedge shared will be your best resource. Cut out sweeteners to the best of your ability. They will only stall you. Coffee is fine, but don’t use it as a meal replacement. It can suppress appetite, and not eating enough is the easiest way to fail. So make sure coffee is with/after a meal. I eventually cut it out because it gices me issues, but many veterans still drink it. Welcome to ZC!

ZC 15 months


(Guinness Bracciodieta) #8

I just looked up the ingredients in heavy cream…yikes!

From now on I’ll stick with the organic heavy cream…only 1 ingredient listed…organic cream!

Never trust Starbucks for quality…heck even their stevia packets have four ingredients…and one of them is fructose…smh


(Norma Laming) #9

I find I’m fine with erythritol. Sometimes I use it in a drink and sometimes I don’t. I find a slightly sweetened drink after eating rebalances my taste buds


(Elizabeth ) #10

For many people any taste of sweetness can trigger cravings. It’s often not just a mental issue but I believe there’s also a chemical component to that as well in the brain. Any long-term veteran will advise you it’s something that really needs to be cut out especially for beginners. no one’s going to tell you what you can and you can’t eat, but for people that are interested in trying this way of eating, a simple beef and water for 30 days is always going to be the best recommendation for the vast majority. :grin:


(Splotchy) #11

I like sharp tastes in cold drinks, so crushing some ginger or squeezing some lemon into icy water works for me.


(Simone) #12

Thank you for the info dread. I appreciate your ramblings. I’m learning quite a bit.

I’m trying carnivore and I’m in 7 full days. I’ve been able to consume only meat and the occasional egg and cheese. Am I making a mistake with cheese? Its become my snack of choice. I’m eating mostly beef and lamb. I’m so used to sauces that I’ve let go of and the cheese is my sub. I’m down 5.4lbs so far.

One other thing. Does carnivore lead to constipation? I’m taking magnesium malate daily.


(Robin) #13

Hi Simone, and welcome!
Be aware you are responding to an old thread, so the original posters may not be here to respond. But others surely will.

sounds like you are doing incredibly well!
Regarding constipation… when you are eating a zero carb or carnivore diet…. You will have much less waste. It doesn’t be mean you are constipated. The saying is; Less crap in, less crap out! (literally)

And yes magnesium will help if needed.

You got this!


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

Personally, I wouldn’t say so, but there are two possible problems: first, check the carb count, just to make sure you aren’t getting too much; and second, you might possibly have a sensitivity to one of the milk proteins (more common with cheeses made from cow’s milk, rather than milk from sheep or goats). But aged cheeses usually don’t have enough sugar to worry about (whether on keto or as a carnivore), because the bacteria used in the cheese-making process will have consumed most, if not all, of it. And not everyone is sensitive to dairy proteins. You have to go by what works for you.

It depends on what you mean by constipation. If you mean having pain and having to strain while moving your bowel, then no carnivore doesn’t cause that (though not getting enough salt can cause it). But if you mean infrequency of bowel movements, that is usually a perfectly natural and normal consequence of a carnivore diet. Unlike fibrous plant foods, meat is highly digestible, and there is less waste, hence we don’t need to move our bowel as frequently. This is usually true on a keto diet, too, unless people go out of their way to consume fibre.

But magnesium and dietary fat are good ways to “grease the skids,” so to speak. And if you increase your salt, you may find that too much salt also has something of a laxative effect, whereas too little causes constipation.

P.S.—Let me join Robin in welcoming you to the Ketogenic Forums!


(Alec) #15

I count dairy as part of my carnivore regime as it comes from an animal and is low carb as long as you focus on the fattier end of the spectrum ie no skim milk or anything daft like that. Butter, cream and cheese are in.

Therefore in my carni world, cheese is just fine. But be aware that dairy has certain proteins that some people find hard to digest and can cause problems.


(Simone) #16

Alec, What problems do you speak of please?


(Simone) #18

Thank you so much. I’m not used to these forums. It’s a little confusing. I was looking for information. Your responses make sense and I appreciate you sharing with me.

My cravings for sugar have not subsided. In fact, typing the word makes me want something. I would have succumbed to Mio flavor drops if not for reading here.

Thank you!! You saved me from myself. I’m trying to stay consistent and release the weight I no longer desire to carry.


#19

Dairy is carnivore. If you handle it well, it doesn’t trigger bad things, it doesn’t mess up your macros (it doesn’t matter if you track, you still have them and overeating fat, for example may be a problem) or causes some other problem, why not? I need my dairy items, the closer I am to carnivore, the more. I need variety, dairy helps with fat too sometimes… Much added fat rarely is a good idea for me, you see. But some extra sour cream? That’s even lovely. I use cream rarely but only because I want to almost-quit coffee (it’s fine here and there but not ALL the time. I can be very crazy with it) and coffee and cream is a match made in heaven and cream is triggering. We can have various reasons to be careful with dairy but not everyone should avoid them. I even drink milk whenever I fancy and have it, I try to be a bit careful with it though as it’s really carby (and it may or may not matter, I didn’t figure it out yet but it doesn’t seem to be a problem for me this far). The sweetness seems to be fine too (as I never lived without sweetness in my diet, I can’t possibly truly know) but it may be a problem for others. But it’s no problem for zerocarb cheeses. That is a problem for the big cheese addicts who eat up huge amounts easily… So it’s complicated but if it works for you and helps and your main food isn’t dairy, go for it.


(Alec) #20

Mainly digestion issues as many people struggle to metabolise some of the proteins in dairy. Some people also find that eating cheese especially is triggering and not satiating ie they could just eat and eat and eat.


#21

As far as I can tell, cheese isn’t satiating to me either (it’s not like I ever ate a ton of cheese in one sitting so I can’t be sure but even if it’s part of my meal, I can guess these things to some extent. or when it’s about the last bites when I am just a tad still hungry). It’s no problem unless if it triggers overeating.
I can’t just eat and eat cheese as that would be a waste of money (and anyway, I am very experienced at moderating many items. I often do that with dairy). I use it as flavor, extra bites, snack… Cheese is good for that role.

If I want to get satiated, I eat meat. Some eggs too but meat satiate me more. The right meats, at least. If something is triggering to me, that’s meat but if I eat the right, satiating kind and use proper timing, it’s no problem :wink: As I eventually will stop and will be satiated and satisfied for a (possibly quite long) time.

We should consider these potential problems all, knowing ourselves. Cheese may be perfect for one person, another should be careful or use it in special times of need and some should just avoid it. The same with other dairy items. Even a badly satiating, super tempting item may have its role, mine have.