For ZC, 1 to 1.5 gr protein per lb of LBM + 20?

#1

I searched for a post that gave me the answer I’m looking for but couldn’t find one. My question is this: If I eat no plant foods of any kind, and only from the animal kingdom, do I still aim for 1 to 1.5 gr of protein for every pound of LBM? Or, do I take the 1 to 1.5 gr of protein x lb of LBM and then add 20 more grams (since I’m not eating the 20 grams of carbs)?

(Allie) #2

As I understand it, protein limitations aren’t so strict for zero carbers as they’re less likely to experience gluconeogenesis.

(Chris) #3

This is my understanding as well. GNG is, from what I’ve read, demand-driven rather than driven by available dietary protein. That and I don’t know that 20g would make a large difference (though I could have my head up somewhere else). Bear’s advice is eat meat and fat to satiety and don’t measure anything at all. I’ve only been down this path for 2.5 months or so, so I don’t claim to be an expert despite sometimes sounding confident.

#4

I recall the Bear saying that also. And that he ate the fat first.

#5

I haven’t heard this. Why are zero carbers less likely to experience gluconeogenesis?

(Chris) #6

In the middle of some games right now, I’ll do more digging later on.

(James storie) #7

Good article! I sure hope this is the case, because I love being zero carb! I did gain a little weight when I made the switch, but that has stopped. I believe I actually gained a little muscle, because I don’t seem to be fatter, just heavier. I’m not as thin as I’d like, but I believe I will eventually get there. Although, if I cut back on my cheese consumption, I might loose some! Love cheese though!

#8

Its interesting, and in my 3 months of doing KETO, I have only gained once. 3lb after eating an 8oz steak! I lost it two days later, but I distinctly remember the steak made me feel hungrier that evening. I personally do better eating 2 ounce portions of meat, or cheese. I never eat my calculated macros, I just eat when I’m hungry.

#9

Thanks for posting the article. My theory was that a ZCer, in keto terms, would get 20 more grams of protein to play with since no carbs were being consumed. Ketoers keep carbs and protein down to minimize insulin response. According to the article glucagon, which is stimulated by eating protein, is counter-regulated by insulin, so whether one is eating carbs or protein, one is going to have an insulin response. So this does seem to support my “theory.”

(Jacob Wagner) #10

Actually gluconeogenesis is essential for people in ketosis to survive. If you eat near zero carbs then your liver needs to create a small amount to feed your brain.

It is also during gluconeogenesis that the body produces ketones.

No, the 20g is an allowance because so many high nutrition foods contain a small amount of carbs.

You don’t need to eat any carbs to survive (for 7999 of 8000 people, if I remember the number correctly) and you certainly don’t need to replace them on purpose with protein.

–Jacob

#11

Granted the carb grams don’t need to be replaced, but I assume they can be, if desired.

(Chris) #12

This seems to be what’s accepted currently. If you’re still hungry, go for it.

(Jacob Wagner) #13

You should try and see what works for you. Just remember that when you eat protein you produce insulin and that any extra protein gets converted to sugar and nitrogen wastes.

–Jacob

(Chris) #14

Gluconeogenesis is driven by demand, not by supply, my dude.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #15

Why not replace the 20 grams of carbs with 20 grams of lovely fat? Of the three macronutrients, fat has the least role in provoking the secretion of insulin.

(Chris) #16

Just eat meat. You get both, and it’s fine.

(Carpe salata!) #17

If you’re having 1. - 1.5g protein per lb of LBM that’s already excessive before adding another 10g. It’s usually recommended to have less than half that ( ie 1 - 1.5g per kg of LBM)

(Chris) #18

If the protein source is fatty meat, that’s not the case at all. There’s no need to count macros when it’s the only thing one eats. I’d say count if she was eating rabbit or protein supplements but if it’s meat, just eat it.

(Jacob Wagner) #19

It’s more complicated than that. It isn’t about counting macros but some people can have too much fatty meat.

For example, me… I have been having symptoms that 2 days ago I discovered are caused my excessive protein. All the meat I eat is fatty, but it was too much protein anyway. I don’t count macros, but I am cutting protein and adding extra fat.

The bottom line is, try it and do what works for you.

–Jacob

(James storie) #20

Part of the appeal of ZC is the fact that we don’t count anything. Yep, that’s right, we don’t count macros or grams or anything. We eat meat until full, then eat again when hunger returns. Some people eat an incredible amount of meat and don’t gain. Some do gain. Some eat dairy, some don’t. Some eat eggs, some don’t. In other words, when you eat only from the animal kingdom, the rules don’t exactly line up. Most people coming from the SAD diet tend to have massive appetites that tapper off after some time. It seems that a lot of people starting ZC from Keto tend to gain weight in the begining. I think this is due simply to our bodies adapting to one style of eating verses another. The long term ZC people tend to weigh more but still be slim. I’m personally sick of trying to follow rules. As long as I feel good and am able to achieve the body composition that is right for me, I’m happy.