Fire in a Bottle - The ROS Theory of Obesity and The Proton Theory



That’s some fair size Titanic sinking chunks of cacao butter in the the Americano.

Maybe start with a few grams to test the taste?

The aim is using the long chain saturated fat as a drug. So put aside the ‘added fat’ worry for the duration of the experiment. The added fat is targeted for a potential greater nett result. The cacoa butter and the coffee should* be strongly appetite suppressant in theory. It would extend a non-eating, non insulin stimulating, window. But it is an energy containing beverage, so can be regarded as breakfast.

The other stuff about visible body fat loss has to be observed n=1.

*Anecdotal from Brad Croissant Marshall’s discussions with people is that half the people experience no change.

Go for that deep satiety sensation.

(Bunny) #142

You don’t have to eat them every day I usually just buy one every once in a while.

There are many websites and blogs that discuss the resistant starch and how to dose it.

From my own experience the resistant starch is like battle armor, it does not matter what diet you choose the stuff is making ketones in your gut and protecting it and makes any diet your on work like it’s supposed to without all the crazy side effects. Resistant starch is beyond amazing…

I get more energy from it than eating food! I throw some nutritional yeast (non-fortified) and brewers yeast (non-fortified) on top of it and I have more energy than I know what to do with and can fast for very long stretches without being hungry in the slightest. But I use very little amounts maybe a tea spoon of each once or twice a week. Lots of science behind my reason for doing it which is fascinating reading for me.

(Kristen Ann) #143

I use 14g in my BPC…

(Kristen Ann) #144

I think you’ll have to test it for yourself. I’m guessing whether people get benefits from it is individual, and whether you get the benefits you’re looking for (weight loss or health?) will be the same.

Also I sometimes have BPC in the evening or with dinner but I use decaf coffee and water it down. If I add cocoa powder, salt, and a splash of HWC, it takes like hot cocoa.


Thanks @FrankoBear and @kaclp

I’ll start with the dinghy-sized and see how that works. :slight_smile:

(Central Florida Bob ) #146

I don’t know where it’s appropriate to post this, but since you bring it up, my conclusion is I couldn’t find any measurable effect from cocoa butter in my morning coffee for two weeks, and ended the experiment when I ran out. I had about 23 grams/day of cocoa butter, so about 7 grams of stearic acid in each mug, so 46 and 14 per day, respectively. After the first few weighings, I just counted out 10 cocoa butter “wafers” in each cup.

No real, noticeable, decrease in hunger, no noticeable change in how clothes fit, gained about two pounds, but not a slow, even 1lb/wk, just 0 then 2. The weight was pure body fat increase.

FWIW, which ain’t much for any n=1 experiment.


Interesting… did you eliminate all the PUFAs from your diet, like the ones Brad mentioned?

(Central Florida Bob ) #148

“All” is a scary word. If you mean “corn oil, soybean oil, safflower oil and canola oil”, I eliminated them years ago. That said, they’re so pervasive if you get anything as a prepared food, you probably get traces of them. We make all our own salad dressing and mayonnaise with olive and avocado oils. Both of those have PUFAs in them. We make wings once a week, and once a month or so use a wing sauce that says it has canola oil in it. Probably <1/2 gram per tablespoon since it says 0 calories from fat and 0 grams in a serving. I might get 2 grams a month that way.

Something that might matter is that since I don’t have a gall bladder, my fat absorption from food may be abnormal. I might not get the benefit other people would get due to low absorption and I didn’t absorb all of the stearic acid I thought I was getting.

(Bunny) #149

From the Virta Health blog they are saying your body naturally makes saturated fat even if you don’t eat any saturated fat so eating cocoa butter chips is kind of novel? So if your body is naturally making saturated fat; maybe the so called stearic acid does not only come from animals and maybe it’s the other types of dietary fats you throw on top of it are what makes people fatter although you can coax the mitochondria in the liver to oxidize fatty acids for fuel for a while then it has a hard time removing all this incoming fat and it can’t oxidize it fast enough?

When you eat resistant starch (some people on the web have this down to an exact science) your making butyrate which is a ketone body but when you place all the stress on the mitochondria in your liver to only oxidize fatty acids and not the gut microbes?

The mitochondria in the fat cells can oxidize carbohydrates before it gets stored into it but when you don’t eat carbohydrates you shut down that process and all the fat you eat gets shuttled right back into fat cell and you get fatter If your over-eating dietary fat even if your in ketosis.


In the context you describe, it would be a wonderful complement for you to fatty-up your morning coffee if you need a brain boost or better appetite suppression to make it to your OMAD etc. As Dr. Fung has well explained, when you’re not doing extended fasting for autophagy, fat in coffee/tea is fine because it does not create any insulin release. Plus, as Dave Asprey of BP has experimented with, the BP coffee fuels the brain up front for the day, with many benefits to how you may feel (energized in a new way) if you’ve got a mentally demanding situation.

Currently I’m using about 2 tbsp hand-chopped cacao butter (but am switching the more creamy tasting, deodorized version which is called cocoa butter once my cacao runs out) along with 2 tbsp good butter - and often I also add some MCTs, due to crushing brain stress levels at times. Often everything doesn’t melt perfectly, but I don’t care, as I prefer to not use machines in the morning :neutral_face: Brainz are doing great, and my recomp slowly continues at 2 years LCHF/keto.

Over the course of my meals, the morning CB and butter, plus other butter/ghee, eggs, and/or sometimes beef fat later in the day etc certainly is resulting in a higher stearic acid intake than before - and that can’t hurt, being that I’ve got years and years of PUFAs to counterbalance/detox (though I did regularly use butter and homemade ghee in those years, so who knows…).

Another interesting angle is that, in the OMAD and TMAD contexts, if you’re someone who easily ends up in a regular significant caloric deficit - you want to ward off that becoming a downregulating rut. So, having the fattier coffee can ensure a better energy intake for the metabolic fire over time. :fire:


You’re right, “all” is scary and very wrong, so I snuck in the “from his list.” :wink:
I’m histamine intolerant, so my list of eat foods is very short, but I do have a daily tbsp of EVOO with my salad.
I will keep fish and eggs, I eat eggs every day, but I will remove EVOO and choose only leaner chicken and pork cuts. The majority of my meat is beef, so I will eat breasts instead of thighs and pork tenderloin instead of ribs.
Just for the sake of testing. :slight_smile:

@SlowBurnMary wow, that’s a whole lot of fat in your BC! :hushed:
I never ate breakfast, did IF pre-keto and now keto OMAD, I was never hungry in the morning so I never needed BC.
We ate mostly EVOO and butter, but we lived in Asia and the US, as well…who knows what and how much bad oils my body’s still punishing me for. :wink:
It might make an interesting experiment. :slight_smile:


To some of Bob’s questions about heat generation symptoms. Ok, they’re rhetorical, but they lead into a brain storm… more of a brain sun shower.

It could be Saturday Night Fever… nah, just joking and embedding a Bee Gees ear worm in any readers.

It’s a risk doing that. For it might discount anything further I write. (“Night fever, night feverrrr”. Dang those Gibb brothers!)

What I really wanted to say is this heated discussion puts me in mind of the informative talks by Ben Bikman on mitochondrial rich brown fat tissue being a heat generation tissue (Prof Bikman terms it ’energy wasting’). And the observed mitochondrial fusion behaviour seen when people have been dosed with long chain fatty acids. It seems associated. But if mitochondria are fusing, surely the adipose tissue is becoming whiter? Unless the adipose tissue is disappearing.

But the mitochondrial changes and energy spilling from these, not yet combined until now, areas of ketogenic diet discussion might give some clues to what Bob and Tom experienced in terms of perceived body temperature?

:peanuts: we need a mitochondria emoji. Peanuts will not do.


Yeah, t’is. When cold weather started where I am, I began to treat myself by including a cup of warmed raw milk in my coffee and just 1 tblsp of MCTs. I had determined the typical ultra-pasteurized HWC is inflammatory for me, and I’ve no source for raw cream, so milk was the best option at the time and fits within my daily carb limits etc. But for fasting that doesn’t work!

So, post-holidays, I started up formal IF again - and been putting that extra fat in to help with the taste because coffee w/o cream/milk is not very tasty to me… but I might could try lightening up a bit at this point lolol. I’m hoping to do that by using cocoa butter instead of raw cacao, as the cocoa is creamier tasting to me and makes it easier to go without the dairy… :coffee:


I always had my coffee black. :slight_smile: I never drank milk (my mom said I refused milk the day she stopped breastfeeding me :)).
I’ll have to try cacao butter coffee, maybe it will be ok :slight_smile:

(Kristen Ann) #155

Ok I got a question for those of your who understand this better than myself… eh-hem @ctviggen @RightNOW.

So… saturated fat causes ROS at the mitochondria that creates temporary insulin resistance so glucose stays in the blood stream but doesn’t go into the cells for use/storage… Would this apply for those amino acids that cause insulin response (if eaten with saturated fat)?

I ask because I take arginine in an effort to boost nitric oxide production. I used to take it during my fasting window and I got great benefits from it. However, arginine causes an insulin response so I started putting it in my BPC (1st meal of day). My BPC contains cocoa butter/lots of saturated fat. I’m not getting the same benefits from the arginine as I used to. I also switched brands so it may be due to that. But then I started wondering if the saturated fat is causing a temporary insulin resistance, are my cells not taking in the arginine for use? Is it just sitting in my blood stream unused? I’m sure this can’t be right though, otherwise our cells wouldn’t be taking in any amino acids when eating saturated fat…

(Jenna Ericson) #156

I recently listened to some Biohackers Lab Podcasts with Brad Marshall and Ben Bikman and they got me thinking more about this theory and clarified a few things. One thing that I don’t think I understood before is that omega 6 fats like linoleic acid are also long chain fats, with a similar length to stearic acid. I think the thing that makes linoleic acid so much worse for us than a saturated fat is that it is a long chain fat so creates more reactive oxygen species, but doesn’t create as much NADPH in the electron transport chain in our mitochondria as a saturated fat would. This lower NADPH means cells don’t become physiologically insulin resistant and therefore end up accepting too much energy, which contributes to insulin induced insulin resistance.


My husband can’t do keto well, it is too restrictive for him and then he ends up doing weird things (as Dr.Now would say). He believes that cheats are prizes for a job well done and then those cheats continue…I decided to approach his dietary choices as “if you can’t beat em, join em,” so we will try the croissant diet - he is metabolically more flexible than I am, he can handle carbs better than I do, so he will be my test bunny. I will continue to avoid avoidable PUFAs, but he will go on a starchy croissant diet.
I do have to say I was unpleasantly shocked at our processed foods options - buttery croissants: 1st ingredient flour, 2nd ingredient margarine! :joy:


Just got a bag of stearic acid. Very cheap compared to other sources (except my butcher gives away trimmings). Melted together with butter in microwave. This morning it was a solid but not unreasonably hard. Put a chunk in my bastardized BPC. My temp got very hot!! Anyway, I’m going to experiment with SA in my coffees, cuz I’m carnivore except said coffee. I don’t think the SA would be very tasty in other carnivore-esque applications.


I found stearic acid in my country; however, only on webstores for homemade cosmetics production. The ingredient seems to be only stearic acid platelets…is this kind safe for consumption?


Just a point of clarification…aren’t Aren’t those called “Chylomicrons” and “Midichlorians” the same thing, but one of them causes you to have the force?