Feels like I’m dying after four days trying carnivore

(mole person) #125

Everyone is different. Some go every day, but I’m not one of them. I think I average about once a week, and I’ve gone as many as 12 days. What shocks me is I’m not even constipated after all that time. I go as easily after 12 days as I do after one.

#126

Oh this is confusing to me how can you tell if your constipated I’m so use to ibs-c and being chronically constipated not going to the bathroom is always a sign I’m constipated…so how’s one suppose to know these diets aren’t doing that? Is it simply because you don’t strain? Or the poop is soft and not hard?

(Chris) #127

If you have the urge but can’t go, that’s constipation.

If you just don’t have the urge, then you don’t need to go.

(mole person) #128

Yes. No difficulty at all. No straining and the poos are soft. I just don’t have enough mass to make me want to go very often. Meat is very completely digested compared to plant matter.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #129

Twice a day on keto.

(Bunny) #130

Keep in mind Vihjalmur Stefasson was eating mostly wild %polyunsaturated% meat\game (that means land animals too, not just marine life) when he was among the Eskimo, not mostly %saturated% fatty meat, cooking the meat is a different story when it is more of a saturated fat or corn/grain fed with carbs (more oxidatively stable when cooked) but over cooking-meat that is mostly %polyunsaturated%, prolly would not be so good for your health? (more likely to oxidize than saturated fats)

Not sure if the above matters just thought I point out the ratios! (…wild collagen rich whale skin and seal blubber is all polyunsaturated fat as well as wild polar bears and caribou’s…)

Polyunsaturated fats are what you usually get from plants and fish!

That is why certain genotypes (e.g. hyper responders) cannot handle the saturated corn/grain fed carb type fats very well (…why some vegetarians thrive on plant based diets and others do not…) unless broken up into percents in ratios: %monounsaturated%, %saturated%, %polyunsaturated%?

#131

Thanks everyone for feedback I’m feeling much better today the first four days were awful, I’m still not optimal but better then before. How long does it take for someone to know they are fat adapted ? I got some feed back from a few others just curious how You knew you were no longer losing water and began losing fat? Also did you exercise ? Thanks

(Bunny) #132

Not sure if anyone specifically answered this question but it appears that your getting hypoglycemic (i.e. the usual cause of migraines, weakness)!

When you feel like that the best thing to do is eat meat right then and that will usually take care of it, so maybe pack a meaty snack to go?

#133

Yea I am eating when I feel this way and increasing water and salt as recommended on here by others and it seems to be helping, thanks I was thinking hypoglycemia too

(Omar) #134

I thought animals mainly saturated fat not PUFA

(Bunny) #135

If they are grain fed or corn fed vs. grass fed?

Out in the wild they are eating all kinds of different plants, small critters (even fish) and bugs not just grass, so it is not the same kind (more %polyunsaturated%) of meat as you get commercially (more %saturated%)?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #136

I would like to see some study data to back this notion up, because recent research seems to be indicating that gluconeogenesis is demand-driven, not supply-driven.

Moreover, Bikman has shown that the insulin/glucagon ratio does not change with the level of protein intake—in the absence of dietary carbohydrate, that is—and it is high glucagon relative to insulin that acts on the liver to stimulate ketogenesis.

I beg to differ on this one. “There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate” (fiber is a carbohydrate) means that if we never eat any, we will be fine. That means that a diet consisting only of protein and fat will provide all the nutrients we need. And we know this. Anderson and Stefansson lived for a year on nothing but meat, and the only time they had trouble was when one of the researchers studying them persuaded them to try not eating so much fat. They quickly started feeling ill, but eating some fat fixed that. The researchers gave up after a year, because the men failed to develop scurvy or any other deficiency disease. The whole experiment got started in the first place because of Stefansson’s claim that he had lived on nothing but meat for several years while living with various Inuit populations in Canada, and various medical authorities refused to believe him.

Several people on these forums have been carnivore/ZC for years and seem to be doing well. Georgia Ede and Amber O’Hearn have written quite a bit about their experiences. There are also quite a few documented tribal populations whose traditional diet involved plant foods only in cases of famine, and they were remarkably healthy until they adopted a Westernized diet. Michael Eades has a fascinating lecture on the transition to agriculture, and the health consequences of adding plants to the diet. Wherever the transition can be documented, height declines and there are other signs of disease in the bones of populations after the adoption of plant foods.

One lecturer I just watched (from AHS 2018) claims that the reason the human race adopted agriculture is because of the opiods in grains. Not sure I believe that, but I am coming to believe that we are better off the less plant food we eat.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #137

Yes, the human race evolved from herbivores, but one of the reasons we know we have adapted to eat meat is (a) the size of our brains, which could not be supported on a plant-only diet; and (b) the shortness of our intestines, compared with the intestines of other primates. Yes, our systems have retained the ability to handle plant foods, but it is meat that made us who and what we are.

(Omar) #138

interesting and it makes sense for gluconeogenesis to be ratio dependent rather than glycogen level dependent

what happens to the protein

would not that implies that the human body is a terrible energy producing machine?

(Robert C) #139

Hi Paul,

I was asked to stop posting on this thread. I’ve been honoring that request all day (and will continue to after this).

But, since you addressed me directly, I’ll reply to your points.

Let me start by my motivation - I am part of the population that, if I had started it before knowing my iron status (I have severe “iron overload”) it might have accelerated my demise. So, I am not against it - I could do it for a few weeks to break a plateau or see how it feels - as long as I drank milk to interrupt the iron absorption - but I am for keeping people’s eyes open (for example, I want people to know that regular keto is much older and well known - even if less effective).

To your points - a year in the 1930s for two men and many recent n=1’s, some into multiple years, is not a lot of backing. “Eat less, stay low fat and high carb, exercise more” works great for some people for decades - then the bad side shows up. Tim Noakes, in 1967, got scientific proof that running performance in a marathon depended on how much glycogen was stored ahead of time (see link below). But, many years (decades) later, he found he had type 2 diabetes - despite looking outwardly healthy and being able to run very far very fast.

We could have tens of thousands of people (mostly men and post-menopausal women) that, after a couple of decades of Carnivore, have whatever system that takes iron from the body overwhelmed and broken down. Some equivalent of iron resistance (insulin resistance) or something. But, polyphenols from plants decrease iron absorption - so maybe if they had stayed regular keto (with some low carb leafy greens at most meals) - they’d be better off.

Of course, I am only guessing from a situation I know a little bit about - and I may be wrong - it could be like cholesterol, dietary cholesterol seems to have little to do with blood cholesterol. But, right now, in the iron overload world - they’re telling us to lower intake and try to block absorption (as well as give blood, which also reduces blood iron levels temporarily).

I see (nose to tail) Carnivore as a positive for everyone because it will push meat variety, meat production practices and meat quality to better places due to the extra focus. But, I wouldn’t want people to believe it works for everyone always and I think regular blood monitoring might be a good idea.

(Omar) #140

WHAT?

you have the right to express your opinion or whatever you think is right.

(Robert C) #141

@Alpha - always a straight shooter!

You are correct - and sometimes I think my opinions help others - but if I know I’ll be drummed out of an echo chamber anyway (and my opinions maligned and attacked) - I’d rather avoid.
(I am a middle child peacemaker type - sometimes to my detriment.)

(Daisy) #143

I go every morning like clockwork, just like pre-keto. If I overdo fats, it’s multiple times a day.

(Daisy) #144

I fully started keto at the end of last August and it took me 6 weeks to get fat adapted. I took about 5 weeks from thanksgiving to Christmas, not doing very well and lost that adaptation. I am now 4 weeks back on and still not back to being fat adapted, so I’m guessing it’s going to take the full 6 weeks again. I am hit/miss with exercise.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #145

Yeah, the fats were killing me at the beginning. Now that I only eat extra fats when I am hungry, I am fine. And my body has also made the adjustment.