Fatigue even after 2 weeks

(Tiela Marie Wheeler) #1

Hi,

This is my second time doing Keto. The first time I felt AMAZING after 3 days. So much energy, my IBS & Crohn’s were in check. Then I had to quit due to financial reasons.

I started again 2 weeks ago and it has been nothing like the first time. I had severe Keto flu symptoms for a week, including extreme loose stools (sorry) and I am EXHAUSTED. Like after 14 days I thought I’d feel like I did the first time.

I am not doing anything different. I am taking an electrolyte supplement everyday and my macros have been set in my app (I document every single thing I eat or drink every day) at CAL 1380 NC 25 PRO 85 FAT 106. I typically eat leafy green veggies, meat (typically sea food or ground beef) almonds, cheese, and keto nut granola (a nut mixture meant to be like cereal). Sometimes I have a balanced keto meal replacement shake when I’m having trouble meeting my calorie and fat macro goal. I’m just wondering why its so much harder this time around.

(It’s been a year since I did keto last time.I didn’t lose weight then either but I felt like a superhero)

(Deidra) #2

Are you taking your vitamins? Also, are you the same age today as you were the 1st time around? How is your water intake? We can flush minerals from our bodies with high amounts of water. Also, take a day to just relax and pamper yourself. It did wonders for me when I felt like this!

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #3

It might not be what you’re doing now but what you did in the last year…

Our bodies adapt to bad diets, and it may be really pushing back now.
Try a little more elimination of some of the things that are supposed to be good for you, like those leafy green ( bitter ? ) veggies.

If all goes well, you can always try them again later to see what happens.

(Tiela Marie Wheeler) #4

What veggies would you suggest? Surely eliminating veggies completely from my diet can’t be the answer, then I’m just eating meat and cheese and nuts. I do cook them, I don’t eat them fresh ( I typically don’t eat fresh veggies at all because of my crohn’s) I do incorporate cauliflower, avocado, broccoli, and sprouts. But the other veggies are all too high in carbs?

(Joey) #5

@Tielamwheeler Congratulations on making this significant effort to improve your health … even if it’s turning into a bumpier ride this time around.

Putting aside the “financial” reasons for quitting keto once before (which sounds a bit puzzling, since a thoughtful approach to keto often costs the same or less than eating Western-style crap), my suspicion is that the symptoms you are experiencing are not directly related to keto.

As you know from prior personal experience, loose bowels + low energy are NOT usually what happens two weeks into cutting out carbs. But everyone is different.

It sounds like the IBS and Crohn’s will continue to take their toll for some time to come - this time around vs last time, for unknown reasons.

The meat/fish & salads are a healthy way forward. I would encourage you to stay the course, make sure you get plenty of sleep, stay well-hydrated with electrolytes too, keep a careful journal of everything you’re eating/drinking, and notes on how you’re feeling along the way.

You’ve done this before, so you know what you’re able to accomplish with sufficient perseverance.

Best wishes!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

Keto or Atkins “flu” is usually a sign of a sodium deficiency, but loose stools are more of a sign of too much sodium.

As others have pointed out, the exhaustion may or may not be keto-related. But one thing that concerns me is your calorie count, which seems awfully low. Fatigue can be a symptom of inadequate nutrition. Even in a low-carbohydrate situation, the body will conserve energy and fat reserves if it thinks there is a famine going on. Try setting your app to “maintenance” rather than weight loss, and you will get a more realistic calorie target. Or you could simply eat to satiety, which means keeping carbohydrate low, protein reasonable, and cooking with enough fat to satisfy your hunger.

Fatigue can also come from your muscles needing time to re-adapt to metabolising fatty acids. If you increase your caloric intake, the exhaustion should mostly resolve itself, and then, after 6-8 weeks of being on a ketogenic diet, you should be fat-adapted again and your energy will likely have fully returned. Give it a shot and see what happens.

(Kara) #7

Hi there I’m a newbie so this is just my experience after five weeks. I find bullet proof coffee a great way to get fat and miss breakfast. I was obsessively weighing everything and tracking every single macro and then added fasting and I got really tired and I discovered I was not eating enough and after two “feasting days” ( basically two good Keto meals with lots of fat) I felt so much better and started to feel hot which I thing is metabolism kicking back in. I just wonder if you might be restricting your calories too much and maybe not getting enough fat, I wonder if you would feel better if you replaced the bar with a nice fatty meal (do you like belly pork it is cheap and yummy). Hope you find a solution and as the dudes say keep calm and Keto on! I love their podcast.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #8

Why do you say " …can’t be the answer" ? I am reminded of the old Sherlock Holmes adage: " Once you eliminate the impossible , whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. "

Seriously, I don’t want you to feel I am pushing the carnivore diet, but it is something I am leaning toward. I have been grain/sugar free for over two years and have slowly met most of my health goals.
I have been recently reading the food articles by Dr. Georgia Ede.
She has made me question just how healthy some of those ‘ healthy ‘ vegetables really are.
I wanted to take my search for optimum health a step or two further and have eliminated most fruits and vegetables from my diet. I am only a couple of weeks into this, so I can’t be that definitive yet,
but I can already say I am seeing some benefit. After a while, I plan to try ( one at a time ) some of the things I have given up, and that is only if I think I might still enjoy them. I will then be able to tell if any of those things noticeably affect my health markers and how I feel.

I don’t want to ramble on too much, or make this about me, so my suggestion based on what you are saying your problem/s are, would be to try some degree of an elimination diet with as little carbohydrate as possible. Have lots of chicken and meat broth. They can be very satisfying when we are feeling hungry.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

Your metabolism has only two ways to cope with an energy deficit. (1) reduce your resting metabolic rate overall, or (2) reduce your activities by making you feel tired and sleepy all the time. It will generally start with option 2 but if that doesn’t convince you to eat more will soon resort to option 1. If weight/fat loss is one of your goals, you don’t want to get to option 1.

PS: I agree with @OldDog that veggies (and fruit) are over rated. If you really must have some, I always recommend bok choy. Tastes good, sort of like a combo celery and romaine, is loaded with micros and has less than 2 grams of carbs per 100 grams.

(mole person) #10

Are you calorie restricting to meet these macros or are you finding that you are not hungry and fully satisfied?

1400 calories is plenty for some women, but won’t be for all. Don’t let an app dictate what you need, it can’t know your personal metabolism.

(Tiela Marie Wheeler) #11

Thanks guys, I upped my calorie goal to 1500. That automatically upped. The fat goal. I’ll see if eating more helps! I tried to make homemade fat bombs and failed lol because I was ending the day still way under my calorie goals so I thought a fat bombs would work, I will try again with a different recipe :grin:

Thanks for all of the advice!

(Tiela Marie Wheeler) #12

Thanks for clarifying. It’s definitely counter intuitive but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Definitely worth a try.

(Tiela Marie Wheeler) #13

The calorie restriction was just automatic in the app when I entered my height, weight and weight goals. I adjusted it because it might actually be the problem. Especially since I was taking in way more calories than that before I started.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

@Tielamwheeler I think most online apps are designed for CICO diets, ie calorie restriction. Some can give you keto-relevant macros if you set them to ‘Maintenance’ rather than ‘Loss’. When I started keto, I could not find any online app that gave me the accuracy and control I want, so I built a spreadsheet that does.

#15

I had to eliminate all veggetables during many months.
In hindsight this looks like a side effect of my gut microbiom having been impaired by too much carbs.
My once rockstable digestion had become worryingly irritable and unreliable before I started reducing carbs.

While it improved within days after having dashed the 7 teaspoons of sugar, and improved more upon quitting fruit and starchy stuff, it only fully recovered after giving up veggies for many months.

I could reintroduce vegetables in the meantime and can now even tolerate the exceptional mashed fruit.

(Jill F.) #16

I say stick with it with the increased calories and be as patient as you can as your body is still adjusting. Welcome back to keto!

#18

If you ate way more before, you probably need more. I looked at the recommended amount of calories in calculators myself and I never had any inclination to follow those itsy-bitsy numbers. My metabolism is quicker than the statistical average, fortunately.
I use a page for tracking but I totally ignore its guesstimation or limits… I use my own experiences - and I am very patient.

I don’t know what could help you but if you can, try elimination, it sounds a good idea to figure out what’s the problem. In my case, typically carbs are the problem, not certain items. It’s much better since I stopped eating vegetables (except in tiny amounts, some of them are so good with meat and eggs or inavoidable because not always I am the cook) and nuts (sometimes I eat some but never when I have enough meat, they aren’t needed then). If you can, try it, maybe it’s not for you but maybe it solves your problems, who knows? I am very glad I was super brave and did it, I didn’t understand myself, it was surreal but useful. Many people have difficulties in the beginning though. I feel better eating less carbs, I just couldn’t do it before. Some of us need to be ready for the crazy idea of almost no vegetables… I was a HUGE vegetable lover (except most green leaves, I didn’t eat them. I thought it unlucky for keto but it’s no problem on carnivore :smiley: or almost carnivore, I probably will do that a lot as
I don’t need elimination of plants, just extreme low-carb and it doesn’t allow a significant amount of plants).

If it’s too much for you, eliminate only one group. Dairy or just dairy with lactose, nuts, whatever you think might be the problem. A short carnivore trial is a logical thought for many of us because you eliminate lots of potential problems and you still can eat great food and it worked well for many people this far. But if it’s not realistic, do smaller steps.

Or just eat more, I would feel pretty bad eating this little every day… But you wrote you have problems with eating enough using normal food sometimes… Do you really feel satiated, getting enough energy or you fill up yourself with a meal with big volume and don’t allow more fat or protein due to your macros? I can just guess here. Some extra fat may be very different from a proper fatty protein meal… I would try different food, we are all different and an app can’t tell your ideal macros. Some people need more fat, some more protein… Or just different food items.

(Tiela Marie Wheeler) #19

So for a week or so my biggest issue was that, because I have a lot of keto options now that I didn’t have before (bread, ceral, snacks, mixes like pancake and desserts) and because I like veggies and low fat meat I wasn’t getting enough calories at the end of the day. It’s not that I wasn’t eating enough food, more that my choices were low calorie or fat, and not intentionally. So I recently adjusted my dinners and am trying to eat higher fat meats, like ground beef. That seems to be helping. I also thought I might have a sensitivity to xylitol, so I cut that out yesterday ( I didn’t realize that the monkfruit sweetener I purchased had that in it so I bought a different kind that doesn’t) and the loose stools issue has abated today. (So far)

I have also been trying to incorporate the meal replacement shake(not as a meal replacement because I am eating 3 meals plus 2 snacks a day) but as a fat booster. But the kind I got is gross so it’s been a struggle, but I also don’t want to waste the 50$ I spent on it.

As far as veggies go, I’m only eating 1/4 to 1/2 a cup a day. So it’s not a huge amount, and usually just with dinner.

#20

Crohns and too much cheese can be the culprit. I would try to cut out lactose - most peeps are not entirely intolerant and can take small amounts of drier cheese, butter, yoghurt and sheep or goat cheese. But, to get to the bottom of it, I would try cutting out lactose entirely for a couple of weeks and see if it improves things. Then you could add it back in, one thing at a time, and see which form is the culprit.

(Tiela Marie Wheeler) #21

Hi everyone, I had a nutritionist look over my macros and the issue actually turned out to be really simple! Last time I did the diet I used the DR prices electrolyte replacement packets. This time I was using the Ultima electrolyte replacement powder from thrive market. I didn’t realize the major difference between the two. The reason I switched is because dr. Price is counts as one net carbs per pack and they ultima replacement powder doesn’t have any net carbs. But the doctor price packets have more than three times the amount of sodium and nearly twice the amount of magnesium and potassium in one packet and so the issue was that my electrolytes were so low that my body was suffering and I didn’t know because I didn’t check :frowning: once I upped the electrolytes, I felt much better! There is definitely a learning curve when on a new diet. Thank you to everyone for your suggestions!