Fat loss on CICO?

(eat more) #56

the ketogenic diet :grin:

#57

This came up in the Low Carb Leader (LCL) podcast with respect to an athlete trying to get “cut” after periods of unsuccessful dieting, and the the basic response was to go into a “building phase”.

For us non-athletes, that mostly means eating to heal your metabolism and stabilize hormones first since those are ultimately what control the storage of body fat.

This is why we advise against restricting calories because so many people have been dieting for so long, the chances are that they’ve already reduced their BMR and the focus should be on restoring it.

After a period of time that will vary from person to person, but I’d roughly say from 4 to 12 weeks, the focus should be on eating keto with plenty of fats, even if that means gaining some weight initially.

Before fasting, the idea of eating more to increase BMR and gaining weight until you’re body is really ready to lose weight would be very frustrating, but with fasting you can do both and this is even addressed in the LCL podcast where there’s a cycle of feasting to stimulate BMR followed by fasting where the body consumes the body fat.

This feasting/fasting/feasting cycle is what I’ve come to find is working better for my body and is raising my BMR in the process as evidenced by eating more and still not gaining weight over the long term.

After someone is definitely fat-adapted, they are probably ready to slowly reduce dietary fat and let the body release it from adipose tissue, thereby losing weight - this effect is predominantly from the reduction of insulin, but also the upregulation of what’s need to release and burn fatty acids for energy.

#58

What @mikki said, it’s much shorter than my answer. :laughing:

(eat more) #59

hahaha i was just typing that your answer was more informative than mine
our answers just balance each other lol

(eat more) #60

@BillJay are you gonna start a feast/fast thread? huh? are ya? (enough of a hint? :blush:)

#61

@siobhan already has one!

(Jessica) #62

That’s what I can’t wrap my head around. I don’t see the difference to calorie restriction + keto diet.*

Really sorry I’m so annoying, but that’s really interesting for me.

  • I meant Calorie restriction combined with a Keto diet. Not compared to a Keto diet.
(eat more) #63

i’m following that one :blush:
that’s what she’s doing…not what you’re doing…inquiring (nosy) minds want to know lol

#64

Calorie-restriction is classically done while still eating carbohydrates which raises insulin and when insulin is present, the mechanisms for releasing body fat are severely limited, if not completely suppressed.

When eating keto, carbs are strictly controlled, so insulin will drop over time, but for people that are severely insulin resistant (IR), it may take a very long time, which is why fasting is advised by people like Dr. Jason Fung and practiced by our esteemed leaders @richard and @carl.

Calorie-restriction in the context of a SAD/SWD is a downward spiral since the body will eventually reduce energy expenditure making it unsustainable.

Calorie-restriction in the context of keto, occurs while insulin is minimized and there is free access to body fat to make up the difference.

(eat more) #65

when you’re fat adapted you’re supplementing the food you put in your mouth with the fat that is already on your body.
restricting calories tells your body to conserve energy and slow the metabolism in case there’s a fight or flight situation where energy is needed or if there’s a shortage of food

not restricting calories allows the body to become more efficient and work at top speed

keto is about hormones not calories…
insulin is the “storage hormone” the best way to not store (fat) is to reduce the likelihood of that hormone going to work
reducing or eliminating carbs reduces insulin…

#66

Planning a BIG one next! 21 days 3000 calories a day. Should be fun!

#67

I’m looking forward to learning what you get as results.

(Bacon for the Win) #68

thanks for this podcast. He and I have similar backgrounds (Avionics then hospitals) so I’m looking forward to listening.

(Kel Ta) #69

this is what I think is important to note- that there is caloric restriction of fat once fat adapted in order to burn own fat storage, correct? this is the part that I think many people miss…

(Kel Ta) #70

agreed… it is about insulin on keto but I think once fat adapted people decrease fat consumption to burn own fat…so there is a reduction in the number of calories someone is ingesting from fat

#71

For some people yes, and for others no.

For some people, as you increase calories, they tend to burn more. Dr. Adam Nally reports eating substantially more during his early keto-adaptation and lost substantial amounts of weight. Others have similar results, so it’s more about the hormones and fuel-partitioning as well as the thermogenic action of brown adipose tissue (BAT) and other tricks the body has of getting rid of extra calories.

For others, after their hormones have adapted a bit, it’s likely that they will need to reduce calories and let the difference between intake and expenditure come from body fat, but in a rush to lose weight, many people neglect to get adapted first or they reduce calories too much and end up reducing their BMR which becomes a vicious cycle.

(eat more) #72

yo-yo dieting while keto

(gooeykablooey) #73

But the “proof” you provided of people discussing how they lost weight on keto by controlling cravings was all anecdotal. There are so few studies on true keto diet most of what we have to go on is anecdotal and discussion of our n=1 experiences.

(Siobhan) #74

How do you correlate this with the studies mentioned in The Obesity Code where limiting calories has pretty much never resulted in sustained weight loss? From what I have been learning so far weight loss is a hormonal issue (generally centered around insulin). If you stall out it is because your basal insulin is too high to allow further weight loss. Limiting calories is a poor and very temporary solution to the problem.

@carl @richard would like your opinion on this too to see if I’ve got this right

(Tom) #75

@Pilotbob, I keep meaning to snip out a clip of @richard and @carl doing the Maiiiil! Thing for my email notification. :smile: