Fat adaption process and training


(Mike Glasbrener) #1

I’m still trying to ramp up cycling after an injury and a couple of set backs… keto riding is still a learning process. I’ve always been a bit scared of fasted riding. So I haven’t done it. After the holidays and other stresses I gained a few pounds and am working to shed them and once again ramp training. As such a few notes so far. My knees seem to feel better which has been part of my set backs. Perhaps long term keto with integrated fasting helped? Or maybe it was down time?

Secondly, I did a spin yesterday morning and fasted all day. I then did another spin this morning and plan to fast today and spin once again tomorrow morning. My spin today was a little lower intensity this morning which is likely due to successive training days. However, I am not super hungry nor is my metabolism crashing. Interesting! Even over the holidays I ate pretty low carb so I think I didn’t lose fat adaption… I wonder how long the long term fat adaption process continues? Or maybe this is a short term training ramp anomaly?


What's going on with my HR
(ianrobo) #2

fat adaption will continue Mike as long as the carbs are kept down, I actually thought I was eating too many carbs and had to go through Keto adaption again but fat adaption continued as you have seen …

and I would really say go for fasted rides and try and go longer and longer, a ramp test would not be enough and it pushes out your fat adaption


#3

Don’t be afraid, go for it! You can pack a snack just in case. I like avocados (peel and eat) and trail mix (nuts & seeds).


(ianrobo) #4

Oh I would add, and this is important, that you can be fat adapted but not Keto … and you do not have to be Keto to be fat adapted


(Mike Glasbrener) #5

Thanks for the help! It still continues to amaze me that my sustainable heart rate can be so high. I intellectually understand it. However, after years of carby riding with gels, blocks and other high high snacks and metering them out over the hours in the saddle my heart rate was quite different. Mid 140s for extended periods,though not all day, 150s for grunt portions of climbing and 160s was anaerobic redline with max at 172. Now my power is down due to lack of training. However, 150s is no big deal. My breathing is moderately heavy but to grind 1/2 hr at that rate is no problem at all. I drift to the 160s and breathing is still not labored.

Regarding fasting, I re fed yesterday and had a great spin this morning. I’m fasting today, will spin fasted tomorrow. Then I’m in on the Zorn fast the mid/end of this week and I’ll learn more about my body’s reaction to fasted riding. If weather cooperates i’ll Get out for a longer ride on my bike this weekend and learn even more…


(ianrobo) #6

That HR one stunned me up Teide that for 4 hours I averaged 162 and yet my Lactate threshold is just 168 so in theory that’s not possible !!!

In practice it explains a lot and why so many endurance athletes if honest would admit that they are fat adapted


(Mike Glasbrener) #7

This morning after 36hr fast was a grind. I’ll continue to monitor fasted vs. unfasten to see if this is a training thing or fasting thing. I’m an engineer and a bit of a data pig. I haven’t purchased a ketone meter but will likely do so soonish. I have a BP cuff and it’s interesting to look at pre/post ride BP. My preside NP was 121/79. Not great but not horrid either. My post spin (~10 min delay) BP was 103/65. Bizarre. I wonder if this has to do with pliability of coronary system or tired pump… if it’s the former it’s good, the later, not so good. I’ll continue to monitor and learn more. Knees still feel good!:grinning:


#8

Regarding blood pressure mine was always lower after riding even before eating Keto. Combination of vessels dilating and lower blood volume due to some dehydration I feel is the cause.


(ianrobo) #9

Never measured my BP before and after rides so that’s an interesting one, instinct tells me I should be higher after due to stress ??


#10

Id be interested in what you measure. I have always been lower after riding.


(ianrobo) #11

Maybe will try it on next ride and see !!


(Mike Glasbrener) #12

I think @Sasquatch16 nailed it. Dialation of the vascular system happens when you exercise if you are healthy and indeed dehydration could indeed cause BP to drop. I’ll monitor out of academic curiosity since I have a BP cuff within 10 ft of my spin bike. I’ve been wondering when is the best time to read my BP to compare against the standardized ranges and even my wife, an ICU nurse, has yet to give me a good answer. It changes depending on time of day and environmental factors.

It’ll take another few weeks of consistent training to really generate meaningful data on my power/heart rate status too.


(ianrobo) #13

Mike, do you have the dat now you can share say on google Docs, I will be fascinated on it, I have all my power/HR data etc then some food and then some Ketonix stuff, so add to that BP ?


(Mike Glasbrener) #14

HI haven’t been consistent for the last few months. I’ll continue to gather data and share with you. I think I’m going to buy a keto mojo meter. I wish it automatically dumped the data so it would be retained when I’m time crunched or lazy…

I am working with refeed issues. I fasted 3 out of the previous 4 days prior to yesterday and hunger was persistent. Until I learn more I’ll just eat…

I had a great spin this morning, power back up heart rate lower and once done I felt good.

Prespin BP : 129/78
~8 min post spin: 119/75

Yesterday post spin BP was particularly low and I felt like crap after spin. Next fasted ride I’ll have more salt prior…


(ianrobo) #15

Fascinating stuff !!! Ok I can not really take bp on commute but can on the Saturday ride


(Mike Glasbrener) #16

I’m still learning about my fat adapted body and riding. Since my training is from a relatively (to where I’ve been in the past) low level it’s both ramp learning and training learning. I don’t have a clue what my anaerobic threshold is. It’s maddening!!! This morning since I’m starting fasting (@7:30 last night for a couple of days) I had some potassium and magnesium. I also had two large pinches of Himalayan salt add the beginning of my spin. It was a great spin. I’ve been back training for a week or so every day. So far for 1/2 hr or so spins my heart rate in the 150s is totally fine. When it drifts into the 160s I adjust my trainer down in power. On the world of bizarro for me near the end of my ride my heart rate was in the 160s to keep my power where I wanted it. I decided to keep my power there and see what happens. My heart rate stayed at ~162 with moderately heavy breathing but certainly not labored. I kept it there for about 6 minutes and could have gone much longer!:flushed: I had to get off and prep for work.

So there are confounders in my n=1 experiment… I’m wondering if when fat adapted it’s easier to get dehydrated so salt is more important?

Results today
Prespin: 129/81
3min postspin: 119/75
23 min postspin: 120/79


(ianrobo) #17

no test before but did it as soon as I got home 118/81 which is about normal for me


(Mike Glasbrener) #18

I don’t know what is normal nor when I should get a normal reading for me. Most of my data is post spin and that may not give correct readings for me…??? It could be that you are highly trained and your recovery time is much quicker than me. My heart rate remains elevated for 3 hrs after spinning presently. My cardio has a ways to go. So maybe lower BP with elevated HR means my body is in recovery…???


(ianrobo) #19

well normal is the pre spin one really as long as no other stresses in life etc ?


(Mike Glasbrener) #20

Most life stresses over the past few months are resolved so that sounds good. If I remember I’ll get an end of day data also. Mostly out of curiosity.