Fat Adapted and Still Excreting Ketones in Urine: Survey 🔎

(Jane) #78

Another data point:

Pee strips - solid Moderate 40
BK: 3.6

Fasted 32 hours when data was collected.

This is in line with what I’ve seen on previous fasts - ketones gradually rise over time and my blood and pee strips are rising this time also.

It makes sense to me - I am only consuming water and coffee so the energy to drive my body must come from my own fat stores. Burning that fat produces ketones as a side effect and it shows up on pee sticks and blood tests.

Why wouldn’t it? At least in a fasted state like I am now.

Since we are testing the theory of colorless pee sticks after fat-adaptation I would like a scientific explanation on how my body could be fueling itself from its own fat stores since I am consuming practically no calories, no carbs, no protein and no fat (for the purists who count macros in coffee) and NOT be spilling excess ketones into my urine.

According to the theory my body should be ONLY burning enough fat so than none are wasted in my urine and only show up in my blood? Or am I understanding the theory wrong?

(Jane) #79

I should add my background info to this data thread:

Been eating keto since Dec 2017, so 17 months. Lost 35 lbs and have maintained it for a year. Been fat-adapted since around 2 months. Fast anywhere from 36-100 hours on a regular basis. I am 60 years old and post-menopausal.

(Dennis) #80

Been doing LCHF off and on for about 16 years. Been pretty strict keto for the past 15 months, the last 9 of which, I’ve tested for BHB with Keto Mojo at least a few times per week. I have always shown color changes with the urine sticks, except when I knew that I wasn’t in ketosis. I know they’re not accurate, but for me they continue to give a reliable yes/no answer. Like many others have written here, the longer I’m fat adapted the less frequently I see high blood BHB levels like I used to.

(Jane) #81

I only get trace when I am eating normal keto but fasting multiple days is a whole nuther animal. 40 hours in and cruising today with little to no hunger.

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(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #82

LOL. You’re like a child throwing food out the car window as the family cruises to the summer cottage! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: Your β-hydroxybutyrate looks like a big overflowing picnic basket. In other words: ketone abundance. My bet: if you had the means to measure it you’d have substantial BrAce as well (guess: 20-40 ppm).

(Jane) #83

Probably! I usually hit blood ketones between 6 and 7 by day 3 of fasting and BG in the 50-60’s.

It’s been a fun experiment - haven’t measured urine ketones in several months and not at all when fasting since I have a Keto Mojo. I never bought any more pee sticks when they ran out.

I picked up a box of 50 for $11 and next to it was a box of 100 on sale for $12. As tempting as it was… I passed on it because they would expire before I ever used them up. If I’d known a newbie starting keto I totally would have grabbed the box of 100 and given most away.

Help for a newbie 😜 Very high ketones
#84

I have similar experience but no data besides blood ketones. TMI: I can just smell the difference in urine and breath.

(Jane) #85

Last night my pee strip was a bit lighter than after my walk in the hot sun (was probably a bit dehydrated) but still in the large 80-range. Blood ketones 3.9

(Jane) #86

This morning pee stix back to very dark. Blood ketones at 6.7, blood glucose at 57. I am 59 hours in on my fast and these are typical BK and BG numbers for my third day.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #87

Woke up to a small pee strip reading and 0.5 ketones. At two in the afternoon, pee strip was trace and ketones 2.0. Now that could be a hydration issue. Because usually the strips go darker as my blood levels go higher. BG 89 upon waking and 93 an hour after lunch.

#88

Right, can’t resist an experiment! :slightly_smiling_face:

I had 3.4 ketones late this morning and BGL is 5.
I was turning the colour on the stick to the second highest it registered, so not trace ketones in urine, lots of ketones.
The print is way too small for me to read.
I am in Oz so you need to translate 5 for US blood sugar readings (if you are after a precise number). Sorry I don’t have a table for that (and am a bit pressed for time currently) but 5 is well within normal blood glucose range. If I get a translator I will come back and edit it in in US numbers.

(Bob M) #89

Just multiply by 18, 5x18=90.

I have almost two thousand samples, some combination of blood, breath, urine ketones or blood sugar. Here are some more. Note at 60 hours fasting, I’m only at 0.6 in the morning. It goes, date, time, ketones (Precision Xtra at that time), ketonix, urine, blood sugar (from my old blood sugar meter, which I don’t remember what it was but still have it). Personally, after 3+ years of testing and almost 1,900 samples, I’ve given up on testing. It’s not useful.

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#90

Thank you for the formula Bob M. :grinning:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #91

Per stick trace. Blood ketones .9

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #92

To everyone who has and continues to test, please accept my sincere Thank You All!

I’m declaring the survey formally completed. I think we have shown quite conclusively that fat adapted individuals can and do continue to excrete ketones in urine, which show up on the lowly ketostix long after the ‘conventional wisdom’ declared them useless for anything. From here, I think it logical to look towards answering the questions ‘why’, ‘how’ and ‘what’s going on here?’ If anyone has ideas on how to proceed, please post your suggestions.

All who wish to continue testing and posting results for this survey are welcome to do so. Although the formal survey has refuted the premise, additional results and comments are welcome.

(Karim Wassef) #93

How and why?

Inefficiency… the liver isn’t trying to (or can’t) hoard every bit of energy.

some of it is genetic, some of it is the result of body confusion.

The less confidence the liver has that it can predict what you’re going to need, the more margin it’ll give itself… and once excess ketones are made, they’re either used or excreted.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #94

@Karim_Wassef It seems that ‘good enough’ leads the evolutionary race against ‘flawless’. I think good enough is after all more survival enhancing than flawless. The evolutionary history of life on earth is rife with examples of organisms that evolved to a state of virtually ‘flawless adaptation’ to their environment. Some dominated their environments for millions of years. When their environment changed they could not change with it and either went extinct or declined to dead end status.

(Karim Wassef) #95

Don’t disagree. Not sure how to connect the dots though? :thinking:

#96

It appears to be directly related to how much dietary fat I eat. Skipping meals, no color on the sticks. Up the fat intake, and the colors get bolder, until my morning insulin resistance blows everything out of the water.

(Jennibc) #97

Well, that’s someone’s opinion. I still show a year into it