Things we already know…kinda. Seems there are proteins released 3rd day of a water fast that are beneficial to heart and Rheumatoid arthritis ( autophagy?) and it is possible that us Keto, KetoAF folk hit that level 48 hours earlier? Anyway here is a link and an article about it.
KCKO
I like the idea, but I didn’t actually see any mention of whether being ketogenic or fat adapted ahead of time sped up the process?
There is no mention. However, much as we have known that fasting has health benefits, we also suspect that certain metabolic changes are quicker for keto folks as their switching from glucose to ketones has already occured. Fung discussed this on his old blog in 2017 I think. We just had no hard evidence. It would be really mind blowing if those proteins were found in people who practice keto without fasting.
It certainly would! And perhaps it’s true, but since they didn’t discuss the mechanism for the change, or what the change actually was, it’s really not clear whether it has much to do with fat adaptation or something else. Personally I don’t feel much different for the first few days of a fast, but I’d certainly like to think it’s doing something!
Oh! I didn’t read it yet but thank you, I am so interested about these things! 
Especially the protein one.
Thanks for sharing! It even specifically mentions rheumatoid arthritis, yay.
Last time I had an RA flare, and it was a severe one, fasting ended the flare much quicker than anything has done in the past. 3 days instead of 1-2 weeks of slowly tapering off.
I’d place money on this being true, though maybe we’d have to say what we mean by “fasting”. Keto has a lot of similarities with fasting (>1 day I mean). For anorexia, for instance, keto provides similarities to fasting, which also has benefits…but the people aren’t eating. With keto, they get similar benefits but also get to eat.
And terms like “intermittent fasting”, “fasting”, etc, often need to be defined. I’ve listened to podcasts where two people had different definitions for terms like “intermittent fasting”, and this could lead to different conclusions
From the study:
We observed the expected switch from glucose to lipid utilization within the first 2–3 days, with plasma glucose concentrations dropping while fatty acid concentrations increased and plateaued thereafter
This may be an indication that keto-adapted folks will reach the protein state faster than carb-eaters.
Love how an article talking about the benefits of long term fasting is headlined " Study Reveals a Major Drawback to The Health Benefits of Fasting"
Truly. The drawback is that it’s not instantaneous, as compared to … as compared to what, exactly?
The drawback is obviously to the healthcare management industry. Those 5 Star Hotels…er…Hospitals might not be able to affrod their mortgages.
That new study is wonderful news!
It makes me sad that so many people are so terrified of missing a meal or a few meals when it can be so helpful. It is so ingrained in everyone that you HAVE to eat all 3 meals every day to be healthy. Even the writer of that article posed it as a bad thing.
I have been keto with periodic 2,3 and occasional 4 day fasts for the last 6 years. Although you do need to build up to it, the occasional or even regular extended fast has always made me feel better and certainly made me feel free from the constant “Oh my gosh, I missed a meal” and I don’t miss the constant meal planning at all. It is nice to finally have it confirmed that there are actually other benefits to extended fasting!
I am so lucky I never was like that. I didn’t know until I saw people with this mindset - even if they didn’t do because they couldn’t as their bodies just didn’t let them.
Not just 3 meals a day, I have read too many times “I don’t eat breakfast but I know it’s bad”. Nope. It’s not bad at all. I always was very sure skipping breakfast is the only way for me, it caused so many problems (especially hunger and loss of focus and I hated that as a kid)! Why to eat if I feel full anyway? But pushing for eating multiple times, especially breakfast is very very common and pretty annoying knowing many of us have negative consequences following it. It’s even worse on a bad diet, I knew someone whose Mom forced some usual pastry+cocoa breakfast on their kid and poor boy get unwell regularly 
At least I only disliked the forced part and the inevitable hunger. I quickly realized that without breakfast I am quite fine and satiated until 2pm… It’s good I stopped being a little kid at some point but some people dutifully keep eating the meal they don’t need or want even if it causes damage and it’s just tragic.
3 meals as the only right way makes no sense. Some would overeat, some would undereat eating like that. We can’t all just make our portions the right size and except feeling right… If I am hungry, I usually need a lot of food.
Sadly I can’t do extended fast since I dropped my carbs, maybe one day but I read about the benefits and it’s quite tempting 
I am a human, with lots of fat, a few days can’t be a problem (if I could persuade my body about it). I did that a few times and it was fine. Sometimes it may be not okay for some reason but we listen to our bodies and don’t do the fast at that time then.
This is the reason I do EF, for the autophagy. It’s amazing the plethora of things it does and yes those of us already Keto adapted can hit it as early as the 18 hour mark, YMMV.
Until you have done your first 72 hour fast you can’t understand what it’s really all about. You need to experience it firsthand. After I did I now look forward to being able to do one. You have double energy in day 2 after you have passed the hardest stages of hunger and wanting to quit (20-24 hours.) it’s a refreshing wide open day with no hunger. Then on day 3? Good Lord I was Superman I swear. If I didn’t know any better I would have sworn someone put drugs in my tea of the stimulant variety. I was a rocket, felt so strong, clear headed, I didn’t want to stop the fast because of how good I felt. But I did so that I didn’t ruin the beautiful experience by overshooting into an area that could get dangerous if not done right. I was learning. I could see doing up to 5 days in the future but I don’t see any need to go longer. Keto people start getting all the autophagy benefits by day 2 and you really only need 1 or 2 days of it.
I’ve also read that it is referred to as the fountain of youth because of the amazing repairs it makes to our skin, and it also shrinks the excess flabby/hanging skin left over from weight loss. It’s firming and tightening.
You will want to read this. In 1929 Shelton coined the term “autolysis” for what we now call autohpagy. He thought it was enzymes. Of course being discredited he will never recieve the recognition he deserves.http://www.loveandtruth.net/shelton-fasting.html
Wow, what a neat document. Strangely it is so much easier to read and understand on the first read through than modern day medical writings. There were so many parts I wanted to quote here because of how succinctly and clearly he says something, but I just gave up even trying because I was highlighting too many parts all over it. Lol So I’ll just say it’s a very informative read about fasting, its many benefits, and how/why it works that others should check it out.
What a shame that he never got credit where he deserved it.
I have more to finish but will need to a bit later today when I have some more time. Thanks for sharing this!
Nope, I never get higher energy from anything. Not keto, not carnivore, not multiple day fasts. I tried them all. Only sunshine has some power but that is more for my spirit.
But it’s not surprising, of course we don’t get the same benefits.
And I don’t do (serious) hunger.
20-24 hours may be the hardest sometimes… And almost the easiest other times. I did 26 hour fasts without trying (very rarely), I just wasn’t hungry. Good old times. I don’t have such big meals anymore. But the first 24 hours shouldn’t be anything special. The next 8 hours are the problematic ones. When my body realizes I don’t just postponed my meal(s) a bit, I want to skip a day… But I usually quit between 20 and 30-32 hours (actually, between 4pm and 2am but my last meal is usually a dinner or a late lunch). If not, I sleep and it’s pretty easy until 2-4pm… Sometimes I can push through it, sometimes not but I am usually very pleased with my results already so if I really feel hunger, I eat. What else could I do anyway? I am hungry.
And I only had one longer one but day 3 was super easy. I wasn’t hungry at all. Day 4 was fine too except I probably missed sodium and I got funny feelings or more like some alteration of consciousness. Being drunk was the closest but this was much cheaper, way longer lasting and without the toxin. Day 5 was when I had no hunger BUT I couldn’t stop thinking about food. And the lack of sodium stayed the same. Then I suddenly got hungry and obviously ate. A bite. Almost the worst food possible if I think about it but my body wanted only that. And who am I to disagree? Pure concentrated sugar it it (dried fruit, not table sugar, even I have my limits). I got much better and the next day I ate like nothing happened or at least I remember so. I would love to test it again but I can’t imagine I ever will be willing and able to do a 5 day fast. 2-3 days sound good to me, just a few per year. I probably don’t need to eat any sodium then but it depends on things. When I did the 5 day without sodium, it was summer and I walked but that’s it and I am not the particularly sweating time but I seem to need less sodium than many and can’t handle much sodium anyway. 1 tablespoon a day is plenty for me and I get unwell if I go near the recommended keto amount but that only happened when I did carnivore without much fresh meat. Smoked pork is super salty here, especially the farm or homemade ones, the good stuff. No problem as long as I eat an egg with every few grams but I didn’t do that.
I heard various times for autophagy, I just don’t know what to believe anymore. But it doesn’t change much: I wish to do 2-3 day fasts and happens what happens with autophagy, I suspect I get some ;). And I try to have a 3 hour or less eating window otherwise, it suits me well even if I don’t always do it for reasons I am working on.
They were fruitarians and he eventually died of Parinson’s. Seems even the brillant people get blindsided. Kept going back to what made him sick.
He ws brought a young woman who was going to die, e refused to treat her but was begged to do so. Here the fasting method failed and he was defrocked of his MD. He was a target, that’s all.
People can claim he was wrong but they cannot claim his and others observations were. Tumor’s healed. eyesight and skin probelms eradicated.
I studied fasting soceities from 1702 forward. All have similar stories. I also studied nutrition books from the 1800-1875. Guess what they say makes you fat? Amyloids, i.e. carbohydrates
[quote=“Shinita, post:17, topic:121008”] and @Just_Juju
Nope, I never get higher energy from anything. Not keto, not carnivore, not multiple day fasts. I tried them all. Only sunshine has some power but that is more for my spirit.
But it’s not surprising, of course we don’t get the same benefits.
[/quote]
I refused to work for Jason Fung because he is very wrong on three points. HGH in my case did not increase 300 fold. There is no way to easily test for autophagy. Did I repair my osteoporosis and 7 herniated disks the worse being 10 x 10 x 12 mm at L5S1 into my sciatica? SUre did. 5-10 day fasts every 4 to 6 weeks for 18 months. Did I see and increase in GH?
Earlier that year I did a three month long course with Yoshinori Ohsumi winner of the 2016 Nobel Prize on autophagy.
I don’t quite understand what you mean. HGH here is clearly inversely proportional with number of hours fasted, and it appears all these tests were done during fasting, not afterward. To me that’s logical. HGH would decrease during a fast - the body wouldn’t want to or couldn’t manage a growth phase with no incoming nutrition - and then HGH would pulse upward after with refeeding. So is JF saying HGH pulses upward during the fast?
