Fasting is kind of scary to me

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #1

I have been eating two meals a day… A good sized breakfast, with plenty of fats, then a good dinner, about 8-12 hours later. I do try to eat dinner as early as possible, as Id like to be eating for 8-16, but I get caught up in daily activities, and often eat later than I’d prefer, and I end up doing the 12-12 thing…

Anyway, every Sunday, for the last 3, I have had a very early breakfast (after waking up in my car… for work) and have not had another bite of anything until the next morning at 9 or 10am. This makes for a 26-30 hour fast.

So this morning after I woke up, I laid in bed and thought to myself, “Do I really need to eat this morning ? Heck, I was already 26 hours into a good fast. Why stop there, right” ??? And here’s the kicker, its totally not that I was super hungry ! It was just that it just felt so weird… odd… wrong… to “not eat”…
…that I ended up having a nice sized breakfast… and basically ruined my chance at a much better 48 hour fast :frowning:

I guess my whole point is, physically, I feel like many more hours of fasting, if not another whole day, might have been possible. But the problem was not physical, It was psychological.

Hmmmm. Thoughts and advice ???

#2

No advice, other than to do what feels right to you.

As for thoughts, one of the most interesting parts of fasting, for me, is the chance to examine habits - particularly habitual eating. I tend to notice this more on extended fasts where hunger has kind of melted away and all i’m left with are the habitual triggers for eating. This is a good chance for you to examine the issue of what does hunger feel like and what does eating to satiety feel like. I think a good part of fasting is about the psychological journey and, if you are open to introspection, the insights that are possible.

Having said that, any opportunity for bacon and eggs is tough to pass up :smile:

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #3

Thank you Andy :slight_smile: I’m open to all advice. I’m just concerned that “whats feels right” and what “is right, based on the facts of the matter”, might be two different things. For instance, it felt right to go on and eat breakfast… but I might have been better off, to just go on and do a 48 hours fast. Maybe next week :slight_smile:

#4

For me it was, I used to eat to satiety and like most got into fasting and not eating until I was hungry, felt great the whole time, never had any issues to speak of other than what seemed to be an unbreakable weight loss plateau, fast forward many months and I slowed my metabolism down from all of it (had RMR tested).

(Susan) #5

Before you decide to do a longer fast (ie: 48 hours or more) eat a good meal first, that has lots of proteins and fats). Then just go for it; and if you cannot do it, then stop, simple. The Fasts are voluntary, no one is forcing you to do them. There are tons of benefits to Fasting, it is something I do often myself (once or twice a week usually) but some people on the forum hate them and never do them. Keto is very much about choices, and doing what is right for your own personal self. I would suggest trying to do it, and if it isn’t working for you, discontinue it at whatever hour that brings you too. Good luck on it, if you decide to try =).

(Bob M) #6

I have never experienced a spontaneous fast like that. I have to “force” fasting on myself. And I try to mix it up and ensure I eat a lot when not fasting, particularly the day before I fast >1 day.

#7

Hi Chris,
I’ve wrestled with the difference between “what feels right” and “what is right based on facts” too. Its a difficult issue because, from what I’ve read (both the medical literature on pubmed and the advice from experts) there is no consensus in the literature. You can select a subset of the evidence and conclude that fasting is great and you can select a subset of the literature and conclude that you will get better health outcomes by not fasting. I think we are far from untying the Gordian knot that is human metabolism.

In the absence of clear and convincing evidence that one choice is better, i think what you are left with is doing what feels right for you. That’s a glib way of saying that genetics and epigenetics are different than mine, your behavioral/psychological issues with food are different than mine, etc. My thinking sort of follows the advice on exercise that the best form of exercise is the one that your will actually follow. If you feel good fasting and it helps you achieve your health goals then run with it - if not, that’s ok too.

(Marianne) #8

I get it.

I typically eat OMAD and do a 48-hour fast once a week with no problem. Did my first 72-hour fast a few weeks ago; again, no problem. Just can’t psyche myself up to do it again. Makes me anxious, I don’t know why. I also enjoy eating, too much. I don’t go overboard whatsoever on our dinners, but I enjoy and look forward to them.

When I start getting the club out as to why I’m not doing it, I just tell myself that this has to be a lifestyle change for me that is sustainable. I don’t want to “diet” anymore or force myself to do anything. If it stresses me now, it is not a good time, even though it went okay. The day will come when I want to do a 72 or more hour fast - until then, it’s okay.

(Robert C) #9

I think this is the case with just about anyone that is on Keto trying a longer fast.
Physically, a non-Keto person might have real trouble - instant Keto flu and blood sugar problems.
But, if you are pretty much fat-adapted, you don’t really suffer much.

But, psychologically - you might put yourself through hell.
Watching the clock as every minute goes by (instead of keeping busy) will start you eating way before your intended breaking of the fast.
Also, as in your case, not feeling normal (social pressure can do it too).

The “trick” as I see it is to get through (doing whatever you need to do) a real 2-day fast (not just a 48 hour fast). Then, you really “see” what is on the other side and discover that, not only is it not threatening, it can actually be a great feeling (like the positive brain benefits you felt starting Keto).

After that, deciding to fast for 3 to 5 days anytime is no problem.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #10

Much thanks to all. Kind of rare when it feels like everyone gets exactly what I’m saying :slightly_smiling_face:
Rob C, it’s definitely feeling normal “only to myself” because nobody but me, (and sometimes my GF I guess, who is also doing Keto) really sees what I eat.

Anyway, next Monday morning, after already going 24-28 hours, if I’m feeling as good as I did this morning, I’m going to go on and keep it going. If I start feeling like “I just have to eat” I will. Otherwise, I’m just going go light on my coffee, and maybe take a couple ibuprofens (to try to combat an enevitable headache :slightly_smiling_face:)
…and see what happens. If I go 36 hours and have to eat dinner, fine. If I go until the following breakfast, awesome :slightly_smiling_face:
Of course I’ll report back either way.

(Susan) #11

That is the best way to do it; Chris, play it by ear and do what your body dictates to you =).

(Marianne) #12

What is the difference? I thought with 48 hours, I was doing a two-day fast.

(Robert C) #13

If you eat dinner Monday and fast for 48 hours, you’ll have dinner on Wednesday.
If you eat dinner on Monday and fast for 2 days (i.e. do not eat on Tuesday and Wednesday) your next meal would be sometime on Thursday.

In the 48-hour fasting case - you really only had one day (Tuesday) where you did not eat the whole day. On both Monday and Wednesday nights you had dinner. It doesn’t help you as much to learn how to go to sleep without any food that day (which can feel difficult in the beginning of your EF journey).

As well, if you fast for 2 full days - instead of eating on Wednesday night and stopping all that great fat burning (which is happening at a good pace by then) you instead add at least an extra half day of fat burning (Wednesday when you would have had dinner on a 48 hour fast to sometime Thursday) - and that is easy because you are sleeping through most of it.

Also, in my opinion (in the example above), it is about on Thursday that you really get that feeling you could fast for much longer and it is when the hunger is gone.

If you instead plan to eat Wednesday night, you clock watch all day and start thinking “is 4 PM too early for dinner”. You don’t really have food off your mind for very long.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #14

Yep. Except it works better for me to have a nice big healthy breakfast on Sunday, then go all day Sunday, all day Monday, and eat another good breakfast on Weds morning.

(Bob M) #15

Usually, it’s the second day (where I eat dinner on Sunday), so Tuesday, that’s the worst for me. It gets slightly better after that, up to 4.5-5.5 days (my max length of fasting), even “good” at times.

At my house, dinners are always the family meals, so I always start fasts after dinner. (And, I rarely eat breakfast, unless we go out for some reason.)

(Robert C) #16

When thinking about this - good to keep in mind the size of the breakfast determines the beginning of a fast (for EF - not IF).

For example - a 600 to 800 calorie breakfast (i.e. pretty small) would mean you would normally follow that with a lunch at noon - so, your fast really starts at noon (starts the next time you would normally eat but do not - that is the “action” of fasting, not eating when you normally would have).

But a bigger breakfast (1200 to 1500 calories) would mean you really had an early brunch and would have skipped lunch under regular circumstances - so your fast really starts at dinner time.

But an extra-extra large breakfast (2000+ calories) is essentially OMAD. So, in terms of intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding, you’ve got a nice window going but, in terms of an extended fast, you don’t really start fasting (i.e. not eating when you normally would have) until the next morning.

Either way - in your example, not eating Monday and Tuesday (2 full days) I think is helpful.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #17

Thanks Rob. Still kicking myself for eating on Monday. I was already a good 28 hours in, then I only ate breakfast, because it “felt like” the normal, correct thing to do… Force of habit I guess. Going to see this week how I feel Monday morn…

(mole person) #18

I think this is true of most people on keto but after more than two years I still really suffer. It might be that I’m already lean enough for a woman but my body really fights me after around 24 hrs and makes sleeping a nightmare. I want to fast for autophagy very badly but I just can’t get past 24 hrs, or 48 hrs if I allow 400-600 calories of pure fat as a supplement.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #19

Chris

Go easy on yourself. Most faster work into longer and longer fasts. Think of it like a muscle. Workouts and practice builds up your abilities. Allow yourself to bale out of a fast as well. In the last 6 weeks I baled once before I ended up getting a short virus. Did not know it when I baled but I had physical hunger and not that mental thing.

Then I moved my resistance training into my fasting window and had a particularly great day at the gym. Hunger said break the fast. So timing is important but you will learn what works for you. I do go to the gym and do resistance training on fasting days. I just don’t push as hard as eating days.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #20

Hey Ilana, speaking of sleep, on my weekends, I’m in my car for like 26-30 hours, and driving much of those hours… sometimes 1000 miles or more ! So by Sunday night, after not having eaten for 16 or 18 hrs, oh sure, I’m hungry… but even more so, I’m freaking exhausted ! And so my head hits the pillow, and I’m dead for 8 or 9 hrs. Interestingly, when I wake up on Monday mornings, I’m not usually any more hungry that I normally am ? This is why I think I need to see how long I can go on Monday without eating. I just have my caffeine issue to address… as I have never been able to drink my coffee on an empty stomach… and if I don’t have my caffeine, I’ll get an ugly caffeine withdrawal headache… Hmmm.