Fasting for Autophagy


(Mark Rhodes) #21

Just to be clear, Dr. Thomas Seyfried noted cancer researcher developed the GKI . https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12986-015-0009-2


(Mark Rhodes) #22

When I did a great deal of extended fasting I studied fasting societies from the last 300 years. Skin repair always seems to take at least 20 days plus and strength begins to diminish at 20 days plus. Dr. Herbert Shelton naprapath recommended fasts for 40 days and ran clinics doing just this. Tumors would vanish, eyesight imoprove, etc. You can disagree with their reasons but their observations cannot be so easily dismissed.

To point they developed the term “autolysis” which was how they described autophagy. This would be in the 1930s. long before DNA and cellular biology had taken firm root. Their idea was this was an enzymatic condition.You can read about it here: https://chestofbooks.com/health/natural-cure/The-Hygienic-System-Fasting-and-Sun-Bathing/Chapter-IX-The-Influence-Of-Fasting-On-Growth-And-Regenerati.html


#23

useless accept when forced thru nature as a ‘real deal’ of what nature offers.

Lion eats for days on a kill.
Can’t get a kill and won’t eat for days.
then a kill and eating again.
Lion has 0 other options at all…not us at all :wink: nature. Mother F’ing Nature

now ‘force it all’ and it works for some in that they can ‘be this forced fasting person’ or most, as usual, backslide and can’t do it…all cause they are not the lion who is nutritionally balanced on hormones, and life stress and minerals and A FRIGGIN’ healthy body to start…so again think further back, what is life, to eat the best of the best or eat when you can and balance back to ‘some Mother Nature’ reset so many will never achieve…so force fast…yes it is euphoric, yes it can be done, yes it is very very religion based thru faith and more

but in the end…let the food change you. eat daily. eat nutritionally. let the food heal and repair and CHANGE you without force.

ok that is my end of how it goes down cause once ya ‘force so hard’ in the end, how many can ever hold that eating plan long term…not many, seen over and over and over.

put up NOW in this world of crazy food at our fingertips…eat daily and change/heal/reset life back to a healthy current living life scenario OR again, deprive/feel less than you can’t eat on forced/ and why 'you can’t ‘be normal’ and eat every day?

yea head games come into this big time also

again, just a chat as I see things, and as I experienced them

I would rather eat every single day and get wonderful fab results on a slower term then pretend I can starve thru days and days to ‘achieve’ exactly what? heck no HAHA I personally tried starving, errrr, fasting and it never suited me and won’t ever suit darn near everyone on the planet in this day and age!


(Doug) #24

Fangs :slightly_smiling_face: - without doubt, for the great majority of us. The mental/emotional component of the journey can be immense, and monstrous if not dealt with well.

Most of us are here because of something, and we need a sustainable solution. If we feel ‘deprived’ (or ‘forced’) in a bad way, then what are our chances of success?

Personally, it’s not been deprivation that was my problem; it was what I did put in my mouth, rather than what I did not.

Much is speculation, but what does the lion dream about, between kills?


#25

you walked the walk and learned

you think back…come in with full EF right off the bat of ‘your personal changeover’ and how long would you have lasted?

not 2-3 days tops HAHA

I know, me and many have tried it BUT THRU the nutritional walk you took toward a keto lifestyle DID you finally FEEL you could incorporate any forced fasting and ‘did ok per you’ but you had an off button didn’t ya and key being…the life of today is not long ago and will never be ‘what wild nature’ is all about so???

Like you said and I agree…we walked a path TO GET here and I know along the way you felt deprived and cheated and irked thru family dinners and more of why in the heck can’t I? We all put YRS into this, right? We found us but don’t add in what a new person like we are were, will ever feel this torture then ya know…this is pure torture and not a sustainable plan at all for the base of the population ever in this day and age.

you would have seen 8 days of no eating for fasting to ‘get what results’ from a month into your ‘healthy journey’ as a deal breaker…lol…who are we kidding here? of course it can’t be done!

the lion doesn’t care cause he is not us :slight_smile: it is instinct and life and breeding for the future it is never OUR human lives and won’t ever be so the thought of ‘what the lion thinks or dreams’ is truly a useless aspect of the human life LOL

remember also we changed the prey the lion lives on…we changed the environment of life to those animals…big picture is key to me when this all gets chatted about…yet so many forget real truths of NOW vs. real mother nature and how little we impacted and now how much we have left that realm of ‘real mother nature life’…I put out that…big SO? I see it in a massive importance when we chat this stuff, but that is me :sunny:


(Doug) #26

The lion eventually has to hunt, but looks pretty calm most of the time in-between kills.

I slammed right into a 4.5 day fast when my doctor told me I’d finally made it to full-fledged Type 2 diabetes. It wasn’t very hard at all, and I only stopped because I chickened out on a Sunday night and had to go to work the next day.

Our experiences are different. I rarely get the “euphoria” feeling, but there is a ‘lightness’ and a sense of well-being that comes fairly soon when fasting, after a day or two. And once in a while “Oh Yeah” there actually is some of that euphoria.

There’s waking up in the morning and having the brain going full blast, and just lying there, experiencing the wonder of it. The body can run amazingly well, consuming its own fat and protein, rather than taking it in from outside. In no way is it “pure torture” for me.

I hear you on great lab results, and I’m not saying that “Everybody has to fast.” There is some speculation at work, and we don’t fully know ahead of time where we are on potential cancer, degenerative diseases, etc. I would lean towards something like, “If it’s not too hard, then I think everybody should fast, at least once in a while.”


#27

of course it is calm…it is a real natural life. It doesn’t think future job, it doesn’t think my wife and kids, it doesn’t think WHAT we think so the comparison, OTHER than carnivore to carnivore does not come into play…not hard to see this but many will never :wink:

Are you the world? Are you the 600 lb plus tv show? Are you the perfect adoptee into ‘an eating change’ thru our personal truths, our personal childhood struggles and throw in our plant toxins and sugar that take us down?

I think your personal reality of what real life is now is so off base cause it suited you…and you think this: for the over all population of THIS world and food additives to keep you addicted thru profit and more?

I think this is SO way off base it is scary when you want to wish what you feel is probably a huge issue and good thing to all comes into just a blanket statement of useless info cause they have no even considered a healthy change now, over younger to older and more…just truly Old D it really is just useless. Would one make or break? Who the F knows LOL cause that journey is not most on this planet as we know thru real stats of how life is going down.

wake it up big time on this path truth :wink: You are so narrow on you and others who do well that the monster big pic is so gone…the big pic is the key to change others and send info out there but starving as a ‘way to go onto any eating health change’ will never be the norm anyone wants LOL

remember one thing real picture of life or what this lives for humans are now? So diff we can’t even put ‘do xyz’ as a fix againt the horrors of the food chain and how did us humans murder the food chain of predators and all critters on this planet? BUT THIS type of thinking requires alot of walks and failures and changes and thoughts and add in our ‘true lives lived daily’ come into play…it won’t ever be occasional or great for most.


#28

Are lions actually ketogenic?


#29

are ya kidding here on asking this @anon94382398

they EAT the recommended nature mother nature life of meat and fat as intended and what scares me is you mighta truly asked that :wink:

and if you as a human asked this then alot more truths of science facts and research must come to you…not a bad thing, but gosh go learn some real nutritional truths of the physical body and more

I honestly hope this is a funny post truly HAHA


(Doug) #30

No. It’s not “useless.” There is very compelling evidence that fasting has demonstrable good effects on some types of cancer, neurological problems, degenerative diseases, etc. While I’m not saying that “everybody has to fast,” one can have good blood test results and still be heading for problems.

Fasting is, after all, a ketogenic diet, and it brings the benefits all the same, if not even faster. If there are benefits for a given individual from increased autophagy, then they are missing out by not increasing it. Autophagy and fasting are what this topic is about.


(Doug) #31

I think this is it - GKI is concomitant, but not a driver of autophagy itself. Sometimes, a change in GKI will be accompanying increased autophagy, but not necessarily, especially in the case of people already eating ketogenically.


#32

it isn’t about fasting I am saying, I am saying no one coming from SAD or a shorter time on any health change can even give it a thought…it is punshiment of truth of the body casue the body IS NOT healthed thru healthy eating to even handle, ever a ‘real fasting protocol’ at all and do you agree in any way ??

cause CICO, just eat less of the same crap is not ever a dieting sustainable for most so why would starving and going 3-4 -5 days of not eating be better? Dieting and direct change of deprivation of WHEN EATING all the time thur nutriton food can heal a body is key on it all, can change us thru time on a ‘healing change of eating plan’ yet the cry of fast to heal is a massive joke!

I think you are way missing my point here…think every new human wanting change, if EF or a tough IF even the first protocol one would put into place and make it…hell no !! (will give the .00002% that it might be their movement forward but I don’t even give it that) LOL


#33

You’re making assumptions and pulling an ad hominem.

This is in no way to promote carbohydrate consumption. The only food that matches ketogenic ratios is nuts but we can adjust the ratios by adding fat to meat.


#34

you don’t have a real clue of what ketogenic real lifestyle, read more please. I don’t have the gumption to even try to explain it to you :slight_smile: More research and more time given on your reading part vs. a fast ‘flip’ into the why it isn’t real from one source would be nice :wink:


(Doug) #35

That’s just not true, Fangs. I think you don’t like fasting, personally, and you want to generalize about people from that.

Plenty of people do well with fasting, right away, and keto eating doesn’t even have to be a part of it. For a vast number of people, their past problems have been “too much,” overall, and even some relatively short fasts make a large and very beneficial difference. People associated with Dr. Fung, even if just as members of a Facebook group, for example, have had great success, in huge numbers, with multiple 36 or 42 hour fasts in a week.

And there are also many, many people for whom fasting isn’t really easy, in the beginning, but who get used to it, do better with it, and similarly have great results.

This is just incorrect generalization. You are denying the benefits of increased autophagy, to start with. You’re not taking into account immune system effects, and other things I mentioned above.

If somebody else says, "Keto (or ‘carnivore’) is just a massive joke," what are you going to think? :wink:


#36

Do you eat unnatural grain fed meat? Which tends to be much higher in fat.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #37

@Fangs Give it up, you’re just wrong about this. Many folks on this forum can attest to the efficacy of short term and longer term occasional fasting. Fasting has been used, advocated and reported since antiquity as a healing and cleansing regimen. Comparing it to CICO and starvation is nonsense.


#38

food is life. the abcense of good nutrition is ‘not a thing’ if you think about it LOL daily food to eat for optimal normal nutritional the body functions best on thru mother nature herself and massive known body facts as science.

and you think more ‘get this’ than those than can’t…the can’t is 95% in failure on ANY given change so if one won’t walk forward to learn more on HOW to eat to be happy, how in the heck can forced fasting be the end all to anyone? I get ya but I know you are so off base if ONE is not way further into healing the body and finds thru healing/body reset does the person even consider regular life fasting or IF as a thought, to even EF

sorry but we must agree to disagree on this one big time

You feel all are you and walked the walk as fasting is ‘a key’ and I feel fasting is NEVER a key til ya walked the darn long path of change to real nutrition and the body has changed to adopt a ‘long term sustainable health change’


#39

wrong cause truly where you come into a health change and how one can handle sustainable long term eating thru health changes matter.

‘what one terms fasting as the be all and best’ is no different than one who can’t do the cabbage diet, the eat this only diet, or the WE MUST fast to gain best results diet…diets and deprivation don’t work…but everyone is saying that new fasting is the same as US WHO been here, walked this path and it won’t ever be…that is my point.

no one here did fasting as the start, we EARNED it thru health eating to our bodies…hope that make sense in what I am say here :sunny:

And what do the Keto group say, real whole foods, drop the keto candy bars, the LC keto cheesecake, drop the cheats and more to keep the blood sugar addiction going yet it IS NOW all about fasting as your miracle? it won’t ever be cause MANY can eat every single day for all the benefits of what feels is the way forward,not eat for 2-4-7 days to ???/

I can’t see it as truths and wont ever

Tell me Michael what is your ‘forced fasting protocol per day?’ that you put on you?


(Old Baconian) #40

Probably not, unless they are starving. Human beings are pretty much the only mammal that can enter ketosis easily.