Excuse my pile of dead fairies


Sweeteners do seem to be a problem for a lot of folks, so this seems like a good idea.

Also, just a reminder that even when you find your perfect formula* your weight loss won’t be linear. Using fasting as a tool to nudge yourself through a stall is a great tactic, many of us use it regularly for maintenance, and there are folks (generally ones who are much larger than you) who do longer fasts as a tool to get closer to their goal. But I wouldn’t use it to beat your weight into submission! There’s a real risk of slowing down your metabolism, and it can set up a frustrating cycle which has you looking at the scale every day, stressed and anxious.

*also, perfect formulas tend to change. What gets you over one hurdle might not work for the next, sadly

(Jackie Blue) #165

Now you tell me! Okay, I did it this past week plus the fasting, one more week to go for this experiment: wish me luck!

(Jackie Blue) #166

I’d love to hear what your keto Dr. says. I can’t find one around here. Please update us if you learn anything useful!


I think formulas get folks into a lot of trouble. The rule on here is

  • keep carbs under 20 grams
  • protein scaled to lean body mass
  • fat to satiety

In the beginning of your keto journey, you’ll generally eat more fat because butter and bacon :slight_smile: and also because your body needs some encouragement to switch over to using fat as a fuel. However, once you’re fat adapted, you should be able to access your own fat stores, and at that point you’re just looking at keeping carbs low and getting the protein you need. [Not saying it’s this simple for everyone! but this is a better path than trying to meet arbitrary percentages.]

ETA: I’m sure this has already been covered above! I just haven’t read through the whole thread.


Intensive dietary management. It’s Dr Fung/Megan Ramos.

Have you found the Obesity Code podcasts (Richard Morris said there are 12), listen to the ones about fasting first, because SALT! Then there seem to be debates about water fast, fat fasts, autophagy - it’s doing my head in - who knew there could be so many ways to interpret fasting (I like bone broth, so I have 1or 2 a day, depending on how organised I am).

Apparently day 2 is the hardest, so I’m not sure if having ‘Day 2’ (cue ‘Jaws’ theme music) several times a week is safe for the PNW. :laughing::rofl:

Oh crap, are the shiv-sharpening urges happening again…?

(I’m a big ocean AND several mountain ranges South-west)

(Jackie Blue) #169

I just finished reading all the replies and responding: Thank you!!
My instincts are turning on and seem to be lining up with a lot of what you are all saying, now that I have been steered down this new ‘Keto Isn’t Actually All Fat, All The Time’ path by you cruel BubbleBursters.

So, I am on Day 6 of my 2 wk alternate fasting day experiment. I cut my fat intake to half on eating days and am doing 24 hrs eating/ 24 hrs fasting. I went from 163 to 159 and got all excited, but now I am trading one pound up and down from 159 - 160 every day. So, I think for this next week I will cut out every trace of sweeteners and do some 36 hr fasts while keeping the window for eating at 24 hrs. Send me any other tweaks you think I should be considering at this point in this experiment.

I have picked up very quickly that my body figures out when I am trying to make it lose weight, so I have to switch up the formula a lot. I walk 2-4 miles up and down steep hills every day. This past week, I have been switching time of day that I do it. I also have been changing the windows of the fasting times. Sometimes I do 6p-6p, sometimes 2p-2p, etc…

One other thing that I wonder about is my period is now 35 days late. The last one (first on keto) was 19 days long. I went to the OB/GYN when it lasted so long and we did all the required checking for issues. No issues of any kind and she also did bloodwork that indicates I am NOT near menopause, as of last month. I was regular as clockwork before starting keto. So, I have no idea when to expect the red tide and if it could be affecting weight loss. If I knew this was the start of menopause, I would almost like that better. I already sent hubby to the vet and we are done having kids, so who needs a period anymore?

On a final note, I just noticed that you are supposed to enter a reason when you edit a post.I constantly go back and edit my work. I know I use filthy language, but I am not a savage; I do use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation! I would like to respectfully propose that we make it easier and use acronyms for why we edit. Here are my suggestions:

FSS: Forgot Some Shit
FFFF: Fucking Fred Flintstone Fingers (for those of us that make typos due to this reason)
CSS: Can’t Spell Shit (for those of us that make typos due to this reason)

(Todd Gage) #170

Good luck Jackie!

I’m not an expert, but you can listen to the keto dudes discuss this on episode 20 - The Big Fat Surprise. go to about 12:30 and listen. They get a question on this.

People don’t worry as much about calories with ketogenic - it’s more about the right calories, but at the end of the day, to loose weight, you need to consume less than you use. for every 300 calories deficite per day, you loose one pound per week. once you hit your goal weight, I suspect a ketogenic diet will give you more leeway, i.e., you won’t need to be so careful.

I have lost significant amounts of weight two other times on two other diets. when I was 30 (I’m now 59), I lost 51 lbs (236 to 185) on weight watchers. I lost that in 14 weeks flat. I averaged 4 lbs/week, which meant I had a 1200/day calorie deficit in my diet. I suspect that is about what it was, because I started jogging 3 miles/day during that diet and did not cheat. I kept most of that weight off for a decade or so. I ate a lot of fresh food on weight watchers, but I also ate a lot of artificial sweetners, butter substitutes, etc. It was a mixed bag.

5 years ago, I lost 30 lbs on Medifast. A friend of mine was on it and she had lost 80 lbs in 8 months so I tried it! It worked well, but it’s all packaged food and doesn’t taste very good. What it does, though is keep carbs somewhat low - 80 to 100 grams and keeps calories to 1000-1200. It’s not a long-term solution, however.

I rather like the keto diet because I’m a believer that most fat is good for us, so I’m eating real foods. I knew about Dr. Keys and his misinformation long before I went down the keto road. I’ve read much from Gary Taubes, and Eat, Drink and be Healthy from the Harvard school of medicine, which dispels many myths. Bottom line, I think I’m loosing weight right now and eating better. I, also, was pushing the type 2 diabetes boundary and my glucose readings are much better.

I agree with what people say here - don’t count calories, but be cognizant that you need to eat fewer than you body burns. It’s harder for our bodies to convert fat to fat compared to carbs, but it can do it!

(Daisy) #171

I’ve sadly accepted this truth in my life. I gave up sugar 2 years ago but every time I try to sneak some sweeteners in there it derails me. Every time. I was so excited to discover I could have cheesecake again on keto, but alas, I believe my cheesecake days are truly over. :cry:


I think it depends on the timing of the reply - if you’re the first one responding it’ll show up right under the comment, but if others have commented, it automatically shows up at the bottom! It took me awhile to figure that out, because it’s visually confusing :rofl:

(Gaja Andzel) #173

IDM stands for Intensive Dietary Management, this is a clinic lead by Dr. Fung and Megan Ramos. The website provides good info on fasting. There is Dr. Fung’s book " The obesity code" and Podcasts " Fasting talk with Jimmy Moore", The Obstity Code Podcast. Both podcasts concluded but the existing episodes provide abundance of information. It is not so hard with the counting etc. 36 hours 3 x week means that you eat every other day in a window of about 8 hours. I use app “ZERO” , to record my fasting. Joining the facebook group The Obesity Code Network helps. You can join even doing the fasting on your schedule. This week there is close to 600 people fasting like I do. Very helpful. I decided to try it for 3 months before deciding it does not work. I will let you know if effective. Let me know if you find something working for you. Good luck!

(Christian ) #174

OMG Can I just say I love you and we should be friends. I laughed so hard reading your post, not at your situation of course, but your writing was on point. I hope it works for you soon and I wanna try your food.


Hi Jackie! Ive been reading this thread and enjoying it tremendously! I know you are trying one meal a day, 24 hr fasting. But just wanted to share my experience. I was doing everything right too…carbs where they needed to be, high fat, moderate protein, etc. and was stalled for over a month. I read Dr.Fungs book on fasting…$3 and some change digital download on Amazon. Tried a 3 1/2 day fast before Thanksgiving. Lost about 6 lbs from that. Enjoyed every non-keto morsel T-day , black friday, as well as 2 days after. Gained all the fasting weight back, of course. I’m now into my 4th day of another fast, going to break it tomorrow at breakfast and am currently down 7.5lbs. This might get my arse kicked off this forum, but I HIGHLY recommend longer fasts. I will update once I go back to eating to see what happens to my weight, but I lost weight from this fast quicker than my 3 1/2 day one. I totally agree with what they say about building up to it. It sucks. But the results keep my momentum going. I also cut all fake sugars, sugar alcohols and stick to a squirt of liquid stevia in my coffee along with almond milk. Ive been drinking coffee like that during this fast as well and doesnt seem to make a negative difference to my results. I would shank someone along with you and the other keto ladies if I couldnt have coffee during a fast!! It would be ugly, ugly carnage, so coffee keeps me out of the Big House. :rofl:

(Margaret Stewart) #176

if i were you I would stay on Keto and add resistance training which will help body composition and tone. Muscle is healthy active tissue.


I’m sure she won’t mind, but just be prepared to be shanked. :slight_smile:

(Christian ) #178

haha . ok :slight_smile:

(Monique ) #179

This post is fucking delightful. That is all.

(Jackie Blue) #180

Message me and tell me about yourself so we can be friends! I am at hour 31 in my first 36 hr fast and I need all the distractions I can get!

(Jackie Blue) #181


I am just checking in to update that I am going on hour 32 of my first 36 hr fast. Nothing but water, not even my bone broth. I can’t even b/l how fucking Ride Or Die I am. Sometimes it’s a little scary, honestly. And 36 hrs will be 2 am for me, so I guess I’m going over 36 hrs! It seems I’ve finally inspired hubby to break his plateau - he’s trying compressed eating windows of 8 hrs, while he’s at work. He’s not quite Ride Or Die, more like Ride or Cry, but he’s trying and that’s what counts.

I had to lock the cat out of my room b/c she was starting to look mighty tasty and I seriously feel like I should look like Kate Moss right now (how can I feel so damn skinny and still be so husky?! It’s like a cruel, cruel form of reverse anorexia!) but I’ma do this shit if it kills me.

Oh, and this is such a pisser - I don’t care how many times I confirm it, it gets my panties in a bunch every damn time - I blood tested at 30 hrs of NOTHING BUT WATER and I got 0.8. What kind of sonofabitching luck is that, that I’m not only the person who gets the never-ending periods AND can’t lose weight, but I’m also the one who barely registers as being in ketosis on tests? If I could catch just one ever-loving break here sometime, I think I would shit a kitty.

Also - found out today I need to have an unexpected surgery on Dec. 10th. Is there anything I need to know about being in ketosis and anesthesia or post-surgical type meds?

(Mary) #182

Re: low ketones - you could be using them efficiently… High ketone readings just means you’re dumping them.


Re Anaesthesia and post op meds - I have no idea, not in my scope of practice but they kinda expect you to be fasted, if they do test your glucose it would be normal (you don’t normally ketone test anyone unless their glucose is sky-high).

The hard part is post-op, because if it’s day surgery even, they like to feed you before you go home . . . and if you’re in for a few days it’s hard to find something on the menu you want to eat. I’ve seen people take insulated lunch boxes, and you’ve got kids and a husband who can deliver food. There is someone on another thread who fasted for three days or more while in hospital - the nursing staff were horrified.

I have no doubt that you’ll work out a plan, mine would involve pork rinds, cheese, salami, butter and an iced gel pack. Yours should include chai tea bags :slightly_smiling_face:, because that’s not a readily available option at most hospitals.

Edited for shitty spelling corrections