Excuse my pile of dead fairies


(Jackie Blue) #1

Okay, get ready for some deja vu. Hubby and I started keto on 8/25/18, so almost 3 mos now. It’s me again, and :::don’t choke in surprise::: I’m back b/c Keto Really and Truly IS. NOT. WORKING. to make me lose weight. And yes, I’m doing it right.

I’m not saying it’s not working at all. I feel better than I have in years. Arthritis inflammation improved, sleeping better, mental clarity, better mood, more energy and stamina, dreams like going to the movie theater every night.

But, Goddamnmotherfuckingpissshitballshellsonofabitchandmotrhrfuckingsonofabastardmotherfuckertoo, WHY HAVE I NOT LOST ONE SINGLE EVERLOVING POUND?!

You know what I’m starting to feel like? Everything else is going so well (it’s been 3 mos and hubby has lost 20#), that I’m convincing myself I am
SURELY losing weight now. I only weigh once a month, to truly see the other benefits and not focus on the weight. So I convince myself this shirt is hanging a little looser. There’s less side boob creeping out of my bra. There’s no more chubby roll under my butt. And then I weigh and it was apparently all just wishful thinking.

I am starting to feel like I am not believing hard enough and I’m killing a fairy every time I weigh myself. I feel like Lucy when the wardrobe just stayed a wardrobe
And didn’t take her back to Tumnus the Faun. Like Dorothy when she didn’t click the red slippers enough times. Like me when I used my mind powers to control the ant and he went back in his hole when I told him to come to me.

I have been researching all this time. I’ve learned enough to write my own book on Keto. I’ve avoided the pitfalls most ppl way more experienced fall into. Like did you know most ppl doing it and seeing results are still actually not getting the fat/protein ratio right? Most ppl Are doing a version that is more like Atkins than Keto and eventually they will have to truly get that fat Intake to 80% to keep seeing results.

I’ve learned things most Ketoers would never know. Like did you know cold rice is actually Keto and does not become carbs when you digest it? (I still
Don’t eat it, but it’s a fascinating fact!)

I’ve cut out almost all processed foods and make almost everything from scratch.

I’ve gone to the next level and introduced daily fasting or a Compressed Eating Window. I only eat from 12 noon to 8 pm every day. This gives me 16 hrs of fasting daily. My numbers should be FANTASTIC when I blood test, right? Well, guess what? Not fairy -killing, doesn’t -wish-for-it-hard-enough me, apparently! At the end of MY 16 hr fast every day, my test results are 0.1- 0.8. !!!

I felt so good when I started the fasting on Nov 1 along with new daily 2-4 mile dog walks (b/c moderate exercise only is best for optimal nutritional Ketosis) that I convinced myself I am actually burning fat so well and utilizing the ketones so efficiently that there just aren’t enough left over floating around in my blood to show up on a test. I was positive when I weighed today I would have lost AT LEAST 5-8 #.

Well, apparently I was lying to myself again, b/c I weighed 165 on 8/25 when we started this woesome
WOE and I weigh 162 now. I’ve been jumping b/t these 2 numbers for the entire 3 mos.

I went thru Keto flu, had an onset of hot flashes I was not experiencing before (i’m 47 years’ worth of sunshine and fucking rainbows) and went over a month without a period, which were very regular. Hubby had the nerve to lose 10 lbs that month while I lost nothing and then I got to add a 19 day long period to my fun hot flashes.

I never cheated, not once. Not even in my dreams. Giving up carbs was as easy as pie for someone as fueled with the determined, slow burning rage that powers my dulcet disposition. I haven’t even missed them because I am a motherfucking stellar cook and I have been making Keto pizza and lasagna and homemade maple bacon ice cream (with butter, for fuck’s sake - who is so cocksucking motherfucking diligent about Keto that they put butter in their ice cream and then they STILL DON’T LOSE WEIGHT???) and my Keto test numbers were always around 1.5 before I started the daily fasting and I felt great, but I never lost a pound.

I eat treefuls of avocado, make tuna melt muffins 3x / wk, drink bone broth with coconut oil every day, get plenty of sodium and take supplements for trace minerals and vitamins, drink lots of water (and still get up to pee 7 or 8 times a night! When does that hellish little perk stop?!)

Now that i’m doing an 8 hr eating window and 16 hrs of fasting with daily moderate exercise, my test numbers have barely been in Ketosis (but I know I am, b/c I know what it feels like) and it’s been almost a month now on this NLS (next level shit) and i’m over a month late on my period again and still having hot flashes and I know i’m About to have another neverfuckingending period and I still am not losing weight.

I don’t have that much to lose. About 20# is all i’m Asking. I’d be ecstatic to lose 30, but i’d Be over the moon at this point to just lose 20 measly pounds. I listened to all the 2 Keto Guys podcasts and they said in one of the early podcasts that this is not the diet for someone just looking to lose 20 pounds or so. That if you were obese or super obese, this is the diet for you. But they nEver really expounded on that. Is it possible this just won’t work for me?

I mean, it Doesn’t seem like rocket science. Doing these things puts you in Ketosis. Ketosis makes you burn fat. I have fat. I have 5 kids and 47 years of carbs fat! Does it really matter if hubby’s stored belly fat is as big as a pillow and mine is a stack of pancakes? Fat is fat, for shit’s sake!!! Why isn’t my fat good enough to burn, too??

I’ve already guided new ppl through this WOE and watched them lose weight with ease. I see hubby starting to plateau and have laser vision and see it’s b/c he has been doing Atkins more than Keto and isn’t getting enough fat - or any exercise.

I track my macros. I fall under my limits now, but not enough under to slow my metabolism down. I don’t even think about cheating. I almost never eat crappy processed keto foods anymore. The only thing I can think to tweak is to stop the fasting (just in case it actually is too soon and is slowing my metabolism /making my body Think i’m Starving it) and maybe incorporate some sprinting. I read a book by an Olympic level athlete who did keto for years who says after a period of moderate exercise, incorporating some sporadic high level aerobics / sprinting can jump start Ketosis or project you right out of a plateau.

There’s my update. I’d love any insights, pointers or experiences that might shed some light on my lack of progress. I’d apologize for all the cussing, but that might mean I will try not to do it again aNd that would be a sonofawhoring lie. I hope it doesn’t get my post pulled, but I Don’t drink, smoke, take pills, use pot, eat sugar or carbs, beat the kids or dog or screw around on my husband, so it’s my only goddamned outlet and studies actually show that ppl who use profanity tend to be more honest and trustworthy, anyway.

Happy Thanksgiving and if you’re looking forward to the holiday b/c you get to cheat after losing weight so well, or as a chance to try some new keto recipes b/c you’re on a roll and doing so well with the weight loss, enjoy the fuck out of that shit. Seriously. Think of me and enjoy every bite and every shriveled fat cell on your happy arse. I’ll be fine, i’ve Got my family. Like I just told my 18 yr old son, “it’s about being thankful, you skinny carb-eating little bastard. Now shut your pie hole and motherfucking be grateful.”


(Scarlett Hyde) #2

I’m a total newbie to keto and I feel almost bad for laughing through this entire post. I love your writing style, hope things get better for you though, maybe someone experienced can help.


(Karen) #3

Cut dairy for a week. Eat only bacon and eggs, bacon and eggs, bacon and eggs For a few days. You’re female … it’s hard to not compare yourself to your husband. Keto is a piece a cake for most men. And you may be very very insulin resistant. Possibly low thyroid. Hormones really get in the way. I also found alternate day fasting to be helpful, but life tends to get in the way.


(Robert C) #4

You could have just accidentally started with the amount of food that puts you into a plateau on keto.

2 approaches come to mind to break the plateau:

  1. (Small change) Test to see if you are fat adapted. Keep carbs under 20, keep protein the same as now and drop your fat calories in half - just for a couple of weeks. Your total fat deficit calories after two weeks will hopefully make a measurable change on the scale if your body can easily access its own fat stores. If your body has instead been feeling calorie restriction and not really become fat adapted, you will instead not see a change on the scale and probably feel cold and tired (metabolism slowing down).
  2. (Big change) Try alternate-day-fasting for a couple of weeks. After two weeks a week’s worth of calories had to come from your local fat stores - it has to move the needle. You don’t have to worry about slowing metabolism on this one - if you are not keto adapted yet - you will be after 2 weeks.

(Karen) #5

Also stay in touch. It will move


(Bob M) #6

And cut back on the fat. I know that’s heresy, but try it. Yes, maybe even eat a lot of protein one day.


(Karen) #7

Sort of a protein power thing. Steve phinney also indicates that if you have a lot of fat to move you want to be pulling that fat from your body and not from your plate. The idea is as you get thinner and have less fat stores, you can start adding more fat to your plate. Google Steve Phinney.


(Caryl) #8

I love you, JackieBlue :heart:

My unscientific 2c is ‘eh, female hormones’. You might need to be Keto for months before your hormones get into a good enough state so that you start losing weight.

You could play around with the eating times and fasting habits until something clicks for you.

I have thrifty genes, so any attempt to reduce calories results in my body converting everything it can into fat for the inevitable famine. I gain weight after fasting. I have yet to figure out how to flip that particular epigenetic switch.


(Mary) #9

I hesitate to push “send” because I don’t think you’re going to appreciate my words - BUT… maybe you just need a bit more patience. I started at 224 on Jan 14 this year. I then bounced up and down the same 3 pounds until the end of Sept. In the 7 weeks between the end of Sept and today, I’ve lost 21 lbs. There’s no rhyme or reason; I think my body just finally got with the program (or my insulin levels finally dropped. Whatever).

Please don’t give up - good things are happening and the scale really isn’t the most important measure. Truly.


(Diana ) #10

I’m one of those people who didn’t have a lot to lose, and haven’t lost a lot. Been Keto since the middle of July, and have only lost 7 lbs.
I have to agree with the posters who have said hormones are possibly the cause. At your age, you might be having some irregularity in your periods anyway. Some people just have an awful year or so before menopause, so this might have been happening anyway. But I hear that Keto messes with your regularity as it is straightening out your hormone levels, so this might be a natural byproduct of Keto.
I bet you feel better in other ways, so you may as well Keto on, and just see what happens.


(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #11

Two thoughts:

  1. Someone above mentioned Phinney’s diagram on Virta’s website which talks about how you’ll be eating a lot less fat as a percentage of your calorie intake when you’re burning body fat. So your diet will look high protein.
  2. Peter Attia talks about how a sizeable minority of his patients don’t respond well to keto. He specifically worries about lipid hyperresponders. But you also have people who just don’t lose fat on such diets. Don’t believe the dogma that this is necessarily right for everyone.

(Raj Seth) #12

Your intro story is colorfully entertaining! VERY colorful indeed. It does convey your frustration really really well. :+1: I worked on a trading desk for 3 decades, and have heard way more colorful prose than what you got - so bring it on!

I read it twice, but I didn’t see a clear description of your body composition / shape changes. (and yes I read the para starting with “You know what I’m starting to feel like?”

You may very well be recomposing - fat down, lean body mass up. This would show up in body reshape and not necessarily on the scale.

I also read

So - What the everloving FUCK are you complaining about? When all say this is not a quick weight drop diet, but a new WOE/WOL - it really really is true… The health benefits are worth their weight :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: all by themselves… If you told me I would gain weight on keto, but get all the side benefits - I would still do it and weigh in at 350# happily!

That said - possible scenarios -
1- your body could be holding on to fat as learned behavior from past yoyo dieting
2- you may need to up your energy intake (best to do this with fat) to convince the body to raise its BMR, and be less greedy about holding on to fat reserves - kinda like drinking a ton to make your body not retain water…
3- Extended fasting: works, almost by definition. If you don’t eat for days - you WILL lose fat… Read the blog on idmprogram.com for guidance…

I gotta go make dinner - I’ll post more when I get back


(Candy Lind) #13

I feel your pain. I fucking feel your pain. Notice how I did that? Certain genteel folks on here (I’m certainly NOT one of them) would appreciate it if you blur your most colorful epithets. But I’m certain you feel a little better after that most auspicious rant. I just might memorize it!

Stick with us, darlin’, and we will help you find your way through the fire swamp.

Not one single person here is exactly like another, and NOTHING you’ve read is gospel for everyone. If you’ve read this far, you can already see contradictions to some of the things you said. You may know the secret to the RUS’s, but they might still sneak up & take a bite out of your arse. A different route might work better for you.

My first impression is that you might be too consistent. If you are doing 18:6 every single day with approximately the same caloric intake (and good macros), change things up. You already have some suggestions here for that. I will add this:

Do a three meal big-eating day. Then don’t eat again until you’re really hungry (hopefully that’s a good 24 hours or more if you really ate big). Then maybe go back to 16:8 for a day or 2. Try the same thing again, only try going 48 hours before eating after the “feast” day. Keep changing things up. SOMETHING will eventually work. If not the suggestions here, then something else. In the meantime, enjoy those other health improvements you mentioned.

Now, get a blank piece of paper and a big box of crayons, and design your very own KCKO tee shirt. You deserve it.


(Candy Lind) #14

Oh, and go read this, from our very own 2nd keto dude, Carl:


(Jane) #15

With your menses so screwed up it screams hormones imbalance to me and that can fuck up your weight loss, for sure.

Not picking on you but 16:8 isn’t much in the way of a fast to kickstart weight loss. I ate that way before keto and kept gaining weight. Skipped breakfast and didn’t eat after dinner.

You should be able to comfortably cut it in half and do 20:4 or ADF and just skip a day of eating by now.

And I agree with the advice you have gotten already - mix it up.

Question - how many gms a day of fat and protein do you typically eat in a day? Not % - actual gms.


(Laura) #16

Love the rant and I can identify 100%. At. 165, are you sure you need to lose any weight? I always thought my ideal weight was 135 to 155 and my doctor said 170 would be about right given my muscle mass and bone mass. At 170 and 5’ 6”, I will definitely have fat, but the doc thinks I won’t be able to get lower than that. I figure I will be dead before I see 170 again, lol, but I share that with you in case you have not considered that your body might want to be 165.

It sounds like keto has provided other benefits, so that is excellent.


(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #17

Weight loss is a side effect of Keto.
Judging by all of those wonderful things you are experiencing, keto IS working for you, just not in the way that you want it to.

You may have pre-existing metabolic issues that need to be repaired first before weight loss could happen? I am sure a lot of other people can provide some helpful advice regarding this one.


(So much bacon . . . so little time . . .) #18

You know, I tried on several responses to that lovely rant, but . . .

I guess I’m just too grateful for the little things keto has given me (the delicious foods, metabolic health, the energy to do normal tasks around the house, no longer having to worry about diabetes, stroke, heart disease, Alzheimer’s disease, getting to keep my toes—you know, minor stuff like that) to really care. :bacon:


(Regina) #19

20 total carbs and under. You can’t help but lose weight at that point (though it may be slow). But you need to track.


(Bunny) #20

Things I would consider if no weight is being lost in the future. I will point out a few things to consider here:

  1. Source of micronutrients

  2. Types of fat consumed in %

  3. Protein cycling

  4. Nutrigenomics (polymorphism genotype testing)

  5. What foods affect female hormones (caloric partitioning)

EXAMPLE 1: “…Did you know that super low-carb diets aren’t ideal for these conditions and, in some cases, may cause or exacerbate them? Women in particular tend to have more carb requirements than men, particularly when women are in their fertile years. Not all carbs are bad, and we need to remember that in our current epoch of carb phobia. For example, flaxseeds contain 3 grams of carbs per tablespoon (all of which are fiber), and may reduce hot flashes in menopausal women.2 While flaxseed is primarily rich in fatty acids (4 grams per tablespoon), and has a small amount of protein (2 grams per tablespoon), many on low carb diets skip it in favor of fatty acid sources that contain no fiber at all (coconut oil or butter). Fatty acids can be healthful, but the body functions best with some carbs, preferably slow-burning carbs. Even low-carbers need fiber to regulate the function of the intestines and reset estrogen, as I describe in my book, The Hormone Reset Diet . This is where quality and choice come in: vegetable fiber is best. …More

EXAMPLE 2: “…A small percentage of the population will find that either a Paleo or Keto diet will curtail weight loss and negatively affect their body composition due to a unique polymorphism they may possess. Researchers have been scrambling to understand the metabolic workings behind obesity as a problem that extends beyond food and activity, and discovered a strong association between the APOA2 gene locus and energy intake. The APOA2 gene encodes for apolipoprotein A-II (APOA2), the second most abundant protein of high-density lipoprotein (HDL) particles and a regulator of triglyceride and postprandial metabolism. Transgenic animal models have shown APOA2 to be a potential indicator of cardiovascular disease risk, although studies are still inconclusive. APOA2 plays roles in cholesterol efflux, HDL remodeling, and cholesteryl ester uptake. There are also associations between serum APOA2 concentration, alcohol intake and body mass index (BMI). More recently, as the field of nutrigenomics expands, researchers have found a direct link between APOA2 polymorphisms and obesity, but with one unique caveat – the clinical outcome is only expressed in the presence of a high saturated fat diet. Homozygous minor allele (CC) carriers of the APOA2 m265 gene showed higher energy consumption, macronutrient intake and anthropometric traits (namely, a higher BMI) in the presence of high saturated fat intake. Since both the Paleolithic and Ketogenic diets are naturally high in healthy saturated fats such as coconut, palm, and animal fats, the expected outcomes of these diet plans would not be seen in individuals with the APOA2 polymorphism. …” …More

EXAMPLE 3: Background: Weight loss success is determined by genetic factors, which may differ according to treatment strategy. Methods: From a multidisciplinary obesity treatment program involving dietary advice, psychological counseling, and increased physical activity, 587 subjects (68% female; 46.1 ± 12.4 years; BMI 39.9 ± 6.3) were recruited. At baseline, a blood sample was drawn for DNA isolation. Genotypes were determined for 30 polymorphisms in 25 candidate genes. The association between genotypes and weight loss was assessed after 3 months (short-term) and after 12 months of treatment (long-term). Weight loss was categorized as ≥5% or & 5% of initial weight. Results: The G/G genotype of PLIN1 (rs2289487) and PLIN1 (rs2304795), the T/T genotype of PLIN1 (rs1052700), and the C/C genotype of MMP2 predicted ≥5% weight loss in the first 3 months. The C/G-G/G genotype of PPARγ (rs1801282) and the T/C genotype of TIMP4 (rs3755724) predicted ≥5% weight loss after 12 months. Subjects with the combination of PPARγ (rs1801282) C/G-G/G and TIMP4 (rs3755724) T/C lost even more weight. Conclusion: Polymorphisms in genes related to regulation of fat storage and structural adaptation of the adipocytes are predictors for weight loss success with different genes being relevant for short-term and long-term weight loss success. …More

EXAMPLE 4: “… The majority of the pre-packaged foods found in the grocery store have been through this process and fortified with folic acid. This is bad news for people with the MTHFR mutation. People with this mutation are unable to rid their bodies of folic acid. It builds up, blocking folate receptors and wrecking havoc. This build up is known as folic acid toxicity. Most lab tests do not distinguish between folic acid and folate when measuring blood levels. If folic acid intake is high, the results may show an individual has adequate amounts of folate. This is misleading as the individual actually has high levels of unusable folic acid, with little to no folate. This situation can cause the body to believe it is malnourished and result in unnecessary storing of energy (weight gain). …More