Episode #70 - The 30 day Steak Challenge


(Richard Morris) #14

Yeah that’s not right. I’d say your device got interrupted as it was halfway through downloading it. I’d delete your copy and re-download it.

I had the other problem. I was having hard time lowering my body fat from what I thought was 36% body fat. I was using several online calculators, as well as body impedance scale to come up with my lean body mass around 69 kgs. When I had a DEXA scan it turned out that my lean mass was more like 80.5kgs, and my body fat percentage was more like 25%.

I’m a nerd. More data = more better :slight_smile: I need to get an updated metabolic cart done too.

10% is not bad at all. I know of people who have RMRs around 800 from a lifetime of dieting.

I hope this gives you a better look into what is happening. The fasts will lower acute insulin and that should help lower your chronic insulin.

If I had your diagnosis - lower lean mass than expected, more body fat, slightly lower metabolic rate … I would be tempted to reduce caloric (cardio) exercise and increase weight bearing (lifting) and eat at a modest caloric surplus for a few weeks to attempt to establish a higher metabolic rate.

I just know of one who likely MADE me diabetic in the first place by telling me to try replacing a meal a day with slimfast. He’s still got a practice in Henderson.

My Endocrinologist was a professor at UNLV and a world famous expert in diabetes, but he passed away after we left Vegas in 2006. I remember at my first consult he wanted to to get me into a bariatric program quickly … I went Atkins instead and his comment was “Dunno what you are doing, but keep doing it”. He was entirely uninterested in what I was actually doing - he had his next patient to see. That next patient needed his help and I apparently no longer needed his help.


(What The Fast?!) #15

I’m going to get my insulin tests and then see where to go. In terms of workouts, I do kettlebells, TRX, and Pilates. Strength training and HiiT for sure, but not heavy weight lifting. Would you recommend switching to more traditional weight lifting?


(Richard Morris) #17

I think she responded how many of us would, when getting a routine quarterly blood test and seeing Triglycerides jump from 110 to 575. Especially considering the most evident marker of her disordered diabetic state was triglycerides up over 1000 (as was mine), and her triglycerides have been normal for 3 years (as have mine).

Concern at her immediate health. Worry that she had borked her metabolism doing some trivial fun food challenge. But mostly concern for friends who also did the same challenge.

So she paid for another test from the same lab to see if the result was just a single sample error, and paid for a test from a separate lab to rule out a lab error, and got a test a few days later, and another a week later to rule out that this was just a transitory spike. It appears from all evidence this was a transitory elevation, and I’m not sure what caused it or even if it was related to the “steak challenge”.

Dave has a few theories why that food challenge could have caused a transitory elevation in triglycerides. You’ll probably have to listen to more of the podcast to get to those.

Not sure why you got a bee in your bonnet about Brenda’s lab test and her response to it, but “hypocrite” is laying it on a bit thick.


#19

Wow. It was an off-the-cuff bit of fun experiment. It was n=2. It was not scientific. They noted and tracked results and discussed possible reasons why certain things happened. I am not sure why you would attack that. It was never claimed to be a ground breaking way to prove anything. I would say more of a healthy curiosity and two stubborn women who were prepared to have a go at something to see what happened.

I did a similar but way less kind of experiment when I added the fat that people put in a BPC every day for a week just to see what happened. Some of us like to do things like that, to test theories that are out there, to challenge ourselves and see how our bodies react. I am not sure why you would attack that. It feels very much like you have an agenda here. But hey, let’s all KCKO.


#20

Yet another great podcast from the dudes and guests!

Have you considered that the challenge didn’t work because you were getting too much methionine from the muscle meat and not enough glycine as in the article below from the Weston A. Price foundation website?

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/beyond-good-and-evil/

I won’t quote the whole article, but it goes on to explain how glycine is used as part of the buffering system with methionine and since muscle meat is reportedly low in glycine, I could see how a diet that relied on it would start to be overwhelmed and unable to properly process all the methionine.

Remember @Fiorella’s attempts and how she determined that she needed to vary her protein sources? I think this is because she’s naturally switching between sources that eventually balance out the amino acids so methionine isn’t dominant.

Methionine is an amino acid that we obtain from most dietary proteins, but is especially abundant in animal proteins (Table 1). As shown in Figure 2,1-3 folate and vitamin B12, and to a lesser extent vitamin B6, niacin, and riboflavin, assist methionine in carrying out one of its major cellular functions: the addition of a single carbon atom together with a small assortment of hydrogen atoms to a wide variety of molecules, a process known as “methylation.” Methylation is important for the synthesis of many cellular components and for the regulation of gene expression. As a result, it is critical for the maintenance and repair of existing tissue, the building up of new tissue, and cellular communication. Methylation is especially important for the passing along of epigenetic information from parent cells to their daughter cells as they multiply. Liver is rich in all of the B vitamins important to this process. Muscle meats provide smaller amounts of most of them, but are relatively poor in folate. Folate is found primarily in liver and legumes, with modest amounts in egg yolks and some seeds, seafood, and leafy greens (Table 2). When any of these vitamins is missing, methionine fails to contribute properly to methylation and instead generates homocysteine, a potentially toxic byproduct that may contribute to cardiovascular disease.4

Dan Quibell did the 30-day bacon experiment and if you follow the link below to the amino acids found in bacon :bacon: , you’ll see that glycine is triple that of methionine, so I think the bacon is more sustainable which is one reason he and many others have succeeded although some add eggs/yolks which are also high in glycine and choline.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/pork-products/7676/2

Because chicken wings contain skin, they also have plenty of glycine.

Perhaps a “30-day bacon challenge” or a “30-day chicken wing challenge”? :wink:

Edit: I found the link below from Dr. Axe detailing the benefits of glycine.


(Mary Ann) #22

Awesome information! Thanks!


(Richard Morris) #23

I suspect bacon with rind may have a lot more than bacon without rind. Glycine is apparently more common in the collagen found in connective tissue, and less common in the protein found in muscle fibres.


#24

Absolutely!

Just another good reason to make @Brenda’s pancakes/waffles. :smile:


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #25

It worked. We wanted to eat only steak for 30 days. We did it. Yay us!! Lol.

I learned a helluva lot more than just theories about my whacked lipids.

I learned how to order a whole untrimmed primal, I made friends with no less than 3 different butchers who contacted me when they got in an especially fatty primal. I learned that after about a week of agitation at eating the same thing, I fell into a pattern of viewing “food as fuel” and recognizing true hunger more than I ever have. I Iearned how much more simple my life became when feeding myself only involved cooking one steak a day. I had cravings for unusual flavors, sour being most prominent. My ketones were excellent, remaining steady between 2 and 4. I was more in touch with my acute craving for fat more than any time my first 3 years ketogenic. I lifted weights as normal, and increased my strength easily.
@Donna no doubt learned some things too, limiting her food to only steak for 30 days.
We didn’t even use spices!!!
^^and THOSE are the reasons we did the steak challenge. Not for health, not for lipid tests.

We did know it would not hurt us, and it did not.
I even still love steak! Though since this prefer it only once or twice a week, no more. I got way spoiled on it.

The lipid tests were purely out of curiousity. @Donna’s lipid panels were normal btw, which is how I expected mine to be, consistent and normal. That they were way off my normal was concerning at first, until I talked to @DaveKeto, then I was calmed by his solid research that lipids are not static.
We then followed my blood work and watched it return to my normal.
All of that lipid testing was unplanned for this steak challenge :slight_smile:

Now. On to the wing challenge. There’s also an offal challenge in the works with @Donna. Lol


(Dave) #26

Okay – you KNOW you should to the blood testing on that one too, right? :smiley:


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #27

If you’re serious sweetpea I’ll do it, but all of it will have to wait till after the festival. Saving pennies atm.


(Meeping up the Science!) #28

Maybe, we should keep this casual, and you know, just “wing” it? >.>


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #29

I’m into just winging it.
Lol


(KCKO, KCFO) #30

Well I think this was one of the most interesting podcasts to date. There are tons of good ones, but I really learned a lot from Richard’s lead in section and then Donna and your experiences with monoeating. I have eaten a lot more steak since starting this WOE, but not sure I could eat only steak everyday for that long of a period. Well done, ladies.


(Adam Kirby) #31

Brenda you had weight loss from the steak challenge, right? Did it persist afterwards?


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #32

ME too. Reminds me of college. I cannot get enough of his sciencing. Lol I made up a word. :hat:

Absolutely. The exact same way as most fasts. Approximately half came back as water weight. I expect it now. 6 stayed off :slight_smile:


(Adam Kirby) #33

Very interesting. Would you say the reason was zero carb or something else?


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #34

Not sure what you are asking. Why I lost the weight? Or why some water weight came back?


(Norma Laming) #35

I’m thinking of doing something similar myself, only with beef/mutton, rather than only steak. So I would like to ask how you both are feeling now? How did you manage, how did your gut manage, when reintroducing vegetables? I do wonder if there is some bacterial die off when one moves to a very restricted diet. Because I cannot see myself ever giving up vegetables permanently, I would be concerned that in not eating veg, even keto veg, for a month I would lose the bacteria that assist in digesting them.

How have you both been since the experiment? What are your thought now, looking back?


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #36

ha! Just saw this. I had no residual effects, and was crazy enough to do this again February 2019