Eating too little, eating too much?

[steka]

thats breakfast!

And apparently around 50g of protein! Leaving me 75g for the rest of the day

[Alex99]

And apparently around 50g of protein! Leaving me 75g for the rest of the day

Sorry I have to run right now, can’t read everything … and how you arrived at 50+75=125g.

At face value that seems to low to me for your height and weight … ? check that figure.

Meantime remember the keto diet is not about deprivation or starvation. Eat comfortably until full. Obviously there are people in the habit of eating way too much for comfort or pleasure so a reality check is required but hopefully you know what I mean.

A. The first thing to get right is the 20g carbs. That is like a key, later you can explore going higher …

B. Then get proteins right. There is a range. But I found it doesn’t have to be perfect (not as accurate as carbs). One day I’ll have 80g, another day 180g (oops) but I’m still in keto. If I have too much protein I get drowsy and need a nap (waste of time…)

C. Then fat can be used to fill in the rest. It’s the variable.

If you have a decent steak and veggies for dinner and bacon and eggs for breakfast with some butter here and there - similar style lunch - I’ll bet your figures will be pretty well spot on. You may lose your desire to have 3 meals, 2 or even 1 is OK. Don’t force feed yourself and don’t starve either.

Just drink tons of water and have lots plenty of salt.

Get most of your carbs from real vegetables not factory food from a jar (not everyone here does this but it is highly recommend …), micro nutrients, fiber etcetera

[juice]

And apparently around 50g of protein! Leaving me 75g for the rest of the day

Nah, it’s leaving you LOTS for the rest of the day.

[steka]

I have the 125g protein from the ruled.me Keto Calculator, which suggests 0,6g per kg for somebody who is mainly sitting.

[Alex99]

the 125g protein from the ruled.me Keto Calculator, which suggests 0,6g per kg for somebody who is mainly sitting.

Hmm, please try some other calculators. I’ve never heard of 0.6g, is that per reference weight, per lean mass (fat subtracted), based on target weight, current weight, the mashinations are endless.

I’m half your size and I eat that much. Still on keto, still lost most of my spare fat …

I could be wrong but if you’re find the portions sizes pitiful then it doesn’t add up.

Anyway see what you can find. Try a few or something …

[steka]

Ok, also as per all of what I heard so far, protein should be at 1.0-1.2 of total body weight.

[PaulL]

I’m losing weight like around 0.7-1kg per week. For the weight I carry I tend to feel this isn’t a lot.

On the other hand, it’s a very good rate at which to be losing weight.

The physics of weight loss is complicated by your hormonal situation. You can’t simply go by the calories, you have to consider what those calories consist of.

Of paramount importance is keeping carbohydrate intake low. We suggest under 20 g/day, because if you stay under that limit, you are sure to enter nutritional ketosis and eventually become fat-adapted. The only exception would be if you are badly insulin-resistant, in which case you would need to eat even less carbohydrate. The reason is that carbohydrate stimulates insulin secretion, and a chronically elevated insulin level forces the adipose tissue to hang onto your fat stores.

But even in the absence of carbohydrate, the body will stubbornly hang on to fat if it thinks there is a famine going on. The signal for this is an inadequate caloric intake. When calories are abundant, there is less need for fat as an energy reserve, and the body becomes willing to let it go.

Also a factor is protein intake. You want enough to support your lean tissue mass. Recommendations vary, but on these forums we recommend 1.0 - 1.5 g/kg of lean body mass/day. At 153 kg, your lean body mass is probably around 70% which is 107 kg, so you could between 107 and 160 g of protein a day, which would translate into roughly 430 to 643 g of steak, for example.

To fill up the corners, eat enough fat to satisfy your hunger. If done right, your body will be content for hours, and it will use your hunger to signal when it’s time to eat again, and how much. It will automatically set your appetite to a level that will permit it to metabolize both the fat you eat and your excess fat store.

So paradoxical as it may sound, to lose more weight, be sure to eat enough food.

[cw2001]

Well i heard the two keto dudes today on the same subject. Eating fat to satiety. It just comes so unnatural, you know?
All I’ve been taught in my lifetime: reduce calories and do some exercise.
Now: exercise is only 15% of the deal, eat fat until you‘re satisfied, screw calories.
And i‘m supposed to lose weight on that ?

Yes, you will lose weight as contrary as it seems to everything we’ve been told for years. I’m a 54 yr old female and if this works for me, it can work for anyone. I started keto in November, but didn’t start weighing until January so I could give myself time to adjust to this way of eating. I knew if I weighed in the beginning, I’d have trouble NOT restricting calories.

I did notice my clothes getting looser and feeling better in general. When I started weighing, I’d lost 7 lbs in 11 days. That, for me, is simply “WOW.” All my years of dieting and calorie counting and I was thrilled if I lost 1-2 lbs in a week and the average was closer to 1lb/week. And I haven’t increased my exercise any.

Also, some days that I’ve seen the biggest drop in weight are after days that I’ve eaten the most. It really does NOT follow the CICO out dogma.

So quit worrying about calculators and listen to what your body is telling you. If you’re feeling awful, try water and electrolytes (I love telling people to eat a pickle because they contain salt, magnesium, and potassium). If you’re hungry, EAT! Just keep the carbs as low as you can and the rest will follow.

[steka]

Thank you Paul and Cindy!

I went further down the rabbit hole of how much protein i should target to eat.
I found this calculator, which comes with some great explanation.https://keto-calculator.ankerl.com
After some fiddling with it, this is what i end up with.

The 160g protein seems very reasonable for my weight (154kg, and body fat of 40%).

So, my plan is to fill up to this protein level and just fill up with fat until i‘m Satisfied.

Still, i believe i should be counting calories to make sure i hit my protein level and also not over-eat. Because i can really dive into nuts…

That‘s the part i still don‘t get. You guys make sure you hit proteins, but then eat fat without any limit? You don‘t exceed your base metabolic rate, do you?

[kandescent]

but then eat fat without any limit?

The limit is satiety. That is, when you are satiated, when you think, "I’m good, I don’t need one more bite, " not necessarily when your belly is full. And definitely not when your belly is stretched to capacity.

For nuts, you’re probably best to limit to one or two servings a day since they are easy to overeat. Personally, I weigh them to make sure.

[daniellealberta]

I use an app called Carb Manager, and I try to stay under 18g of carbs a day. The app tracks both carbs and calories. Since I started keto, I have counted carbs instead of using calorie consumption to guide me. When I first started, I was surprised at how many calories I was actually eating, considering I was eating much more fat and protein. Most days, I ended up between 1,800 and 2,000 calories. I had expected it to be closer to 3,000.

In my case at least, the reality is that eating small amounts of fat (say 200-300 calories) makes you feel fuller for longer than large amounts (600-800 calories) of carbs.

It’s a strange thing to get your head around, considering we’ve been taught for so long to restrict calories in order to lose weight. I’ve lost weight by restricting calories, but it’s never lasted long, and the weight has always come back.

I’m approaching my one year anniversary on keto, and I’ve lost 72 pounds. It’s the longest I’ve ever stayed with a certain way of eating, and I know I can continue with it.

Don’t worry about the calories, you’ll probably find you’re eating fewer calories than you think you are anyway! Track the carbs to start with. It’s tough, but it’s worth it!

[cw2001]

That‘s the part i still don‘t get. You guys make sure you hit proteins, but then eat fat without any limit? You don‘t exceed your base metabolic rate, do you?

No, I don’t make sure I “hit proteins” because ALL of the calculators are guess work. Yes, you can go get a scan that will give you a better indication of lean muscle mass, but calculators are based on “generalities.” So if you’re eating to satisfy a calculator, you’re using some arbitrary measure to tell you how much to eat. You could have a leaner body type, or be more active, or whatever…

So I’ll say it one more time. Quit eating “to numbers.” Listen to what your body needs. It WILL tell you.

Look, I was skeptical about this at first. It’s somehow reassuring to say “Well, I should eat x amount of protein, x amount of fat, and I’m hitting those targets so I’m all good.” But that’s a false reassurance because the numbers are mostly meaningless.

But since I’ve been doing keto, I’ve had one day where I seriously wanted some fat. I ate bacon, and an avocado, and salami and cheese, and HWC whipped into a dessert. I felt like I ate SO much…and I lost weight the next day. I had another day that my “normal” amount of fat just felt very gross to me…so the next day, I ate very little added fat, felt good, and lost weight. Another day, I was craving protein. The only thing I could think of was a nice, juicy ribeye, and it was amazing. Scales have consistently gone DOWN even when I’m probably overeating (or undereating…oh, the dreaded BMR reduction…NOT!) according to any calculator. But I’m listening…eat when I’m hungry, drink when I’m thirsty, don’t eat when I’m not hungry, and I avoid as many carbs as I can.

I don’t know what my BMR is because I’m not going to go to a fancy lab and let them check it…that’s what it takes to truly know your BMR. Calculations there are just guesswork, too, and in fact, have changed multiple times over the years.

I’ll know I’ve exceed my BMR, or better yet, what my body needs, when or if I start gaining weight. Otherwise, I honestly don’t care.

[Alex99]

The limit is satiety. That is, when you are satiated, when you think, "I’m good, I don’t need one more bite, " not necessarily when your belly is full. And definitely not when your belly is stretched to capacity.

Eat until 80% full because satiety takes 20 minutes get through (food must reach certain point in digestive system, but by that time you may have overeaten …)

[PaulL]

That‘s the part i still don‘t get. You guys make sure you hit proteins, but then eat fat without any limit? You don‘t exceed your base metabolic rate, do you?

If you eat to satiety, your body will tell you when to stop. That feeling of “I don’t want any more food right now” is your limit. Wait to eat until you are hungry, then eat until you stop being hungry, stop eating, and don’t eat again until you are hungry again.

If you listen to your body, it will tell you when you’ve given it enough, in combination with the energy it still has in storage (i.e., body fat), to do what it needs to do. Eating to satiety requires no calorie counting. All we have to do is to keep our carb intake as low as possible. Our body will do the rest.

Alternatively, you can try to out-think two million years of evolution. But I don’t recommend it.

Eat until 80% full

For me, personally, I have no idea how to figure that out. Eating until my stomach is at 80% of its capacity would be feasible, but I stop being hungry long before that point. For me, satiety happens between one bite and the next. I have no way of knowing that I am going to become satisfied 20 minutes in the future. Instead, what happens is that I enjoy a bite of food, and then suddenly it’s enough, I don’t want more. I have plenty of room for more, but I don’t want more.

It’s very different from eating to the point where my stomach will literally explode if I eat “just wan more waffer-theen meent.” I used reach that point regularly on my high-carbohydrate diet and would still be hungry for more. “Full” and “satisfied” have acquired distinct meanings for me on keto. Instead of being full but hungry, I now get nowhere near full but satisfied.

[steka]

Thank you for the answers!
To get below the 20g carbs, I’d still feel more safe to log my food. I average between 10-30 net carbs in the last 2 1/2 weeks.
Do Uli guys recommend any intermittent fasting?

[PaulL]

Sure, but wait until you’ve become fat-adapted. How long have you been keto?

If you take a look around these forums, you’ll find a whole fasting forum, with lots of useful information.

[steka]

Keto, since the beginning of the year. I think 2nd or 3rd of January.
But already, I don’t feel hungry anymore. Normally I’d wake up crazy hungry. Now it’s just muted. I can easily go until 12 or 1 pm without any food - and I feel great about it.
No cravings for carbs anymore. Honestly, I’d rather eat a few nuts than snack carbs.

[HeleneS]

Sounds very postiv. I love being in ketosis as well

[Alex99]

To get below the 20g carbs, I’d still feel more safe to log my food. I average between 10-30 net carbs in the last 2 1/2 weeks.
Do Uli guys recommend any intermittent fasting?

Logging is a good idea, especially at first. After a while you get the hang of it so it’s not as essential.

Watch for hidden carbs, I was buying a cappuccino from the cafe at work, wow I didn’t realise they put that much milk in it. 10g right there. And watch anything from a jar from a factory, the put sugar and wheat into everything …

As for fasting I don’t really do it, I just didn’t want to shock my system with too many changes all at once. One change at a time. I’ve lost my appetite for breakfast (so maybe that counts as fasting, I don’t know).

[Alex99]

Instead of being full but hungry, I now get nowhere near full but satisfied.

“Nowhere near full but satisfied” is probably the best way to put it.

As opposed to “jam packed” and later saying “hey I should not have eaten so much”. As one releases the belt one notch.

That reminds me I have to buy new clothes. Where is the keto complaint department. All this weight loss…