Eating too little, eating too much?

(The crazy German guy) #1

Keto is great. I do the IF16-8 thing and start with lunch. I have loads of energy and feel focused throughout the day. Headaches went away too. I have days though where I feel like a truck ran me over, followed by a tank and a herd of bison.
Of course, once my scale shows stagnation over multiple days, I start to doubt.

I’m losing weight like around 0.7-1kg per week. For the weight I carry I tend to feel this isn’t a lot.

I’m a 33 yr old male, 192cm, and 154kg. How many calories should I shoot for?
until now I set it at 1500kcal and stick to it most of the time. IF helps with that.
But doing some of the keto calculators they suggest something between 2.000 and 2.400kcal. Whoa!
What’s the verdict here?

Technically, if I eat 1000kcal more than now (where I’m losing 1kg per week), and 1kg of fat is around 7500kcal - wouldn’t that mean over a week I won’t lose any weight anymore? I know the discussion around this, but seriously, would I?

(Mark Berry) #2

Following. I worry about slowing my bmr down by not eating enough or fasting for more than a day.

(The crazy German guy) #3

Good to see I’m not alone with this. I have the same doubt about fasting too.

(Running from stupidity) #4

Fasting is a very different mechanism than calorie restriction. Once you’re fat-adapted, for a lot of people, not-eating is a very useful tool.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #5

You’re not really giving enough information but if the app you’re using is suggesting that you should be eating 500-1000 more calories you might be pushing yourself into starvation mode even though you’re eating. Your body may be reacting to your low caloric intake by holding on to it’s fat stores. Until you’re fully fat adapted you shouldn’t fast or calorie restrict. Eat enough fats to get your body working well without burn out every day. Don’t be hungry. Later on you can fast and run a deficit calorie count and loose weight. But right now I think your metabolism is confused and fighting back.

#6

Eating enough protein is important. Calories by itself does not really give a very clear picture of what you are doing

(The crazy German guy) #7

Hey, thanks for the answer. What’s the info you would need? I ran the ruled.me calculator with my parameters, for example.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #8

Your age, weight, sex, height all come into play when you calculate macros. Also a typical example of the way you eat, frequency of meals and such. Are you getting enough protein in and fats too. How much water daily, salt intake, supplements you may be using. Are you getting adequate potassium and magnesium and sodium. All these factors will help others figure out their recommendations for you.

(The crazy German guy) #9

Hi,

I think what I’m looking for is some general guidance. Is 1.500kcal for somebody like me (see first post) much too less, so that I should rather look at eating around 2.400kcal?

(Jeanne Wagner) #10

Are you eating to satiety? Do you get hungry again before your prescribed eating time? There are a lot of variables. They say it takes a good 6-8 weeks to become fat adapted, so your days where you feel unwell could be due to your body continuing to adjust. Also you need to make sure you are drinking enough water and your electrolytes are being kept up. Most people take in extra salt. Hunger can be mistaken for actually being low on salt or being thirsty. And being thirsty can be mistaken for being low on salt. It’s all intertwined. It takes time to learn to recognize the body’s actual hunger signals again.

You don’t necessarily have to worry about calories when you’re taking in enough fat to carry you through, so try not to obsess.

(The crazy German guy) #11

Well i heard the two keto dudes today on the same subject. Eating fat to satiety. It just comes so unnatural, you know?
All I’ve been taught in my lifetime: reduce calories and do some exercise.
Now: exercise is only 15% of the deal, eat fat until you‘re satisfied, screw calories.
And i‘m supposed to lose weight on that ? :wink:
Now, i‘m on Keto since 26th of December or so, so while in ketosis, „fat adapted“ is probably something my body isn‘t yet.

(Running from stupidity) #12

If that. It’s more like five percent. However, it has a lot of other benefits.

fat adapted“ is probably something my body isn‘t yet.

Correct. And things change once you get to that point, but your body will tell you at that point. In the meantime just make sure you’re not hungry by eating enough at meals, keep the carbs down, start meal construction with protein, get enough salt/electrolytes. #sorted

(The crazy German guy) #13

Thank you, and i‘m sorry, but i still don‘t get it.
Start meal construction with protein - ok, so i get a nice steak at 200g and put some stuff next to it. But that‘s not how it works, right?
If 70-75% of nutrition is supposed to come from fats, why not start the meal construction with the fats in mind?

(Running from stupidity) #14

Indeed it is how it works.

If 70-75% of nutrition is supposed to come from fats, why not start the meal construction with the fats in mind?

Because you NEED the protein for all sorts of nutrients. The fat is just there to make up the energy-balance deficit, which is why when you become fat-adapted, you can reduce the amount of fat being eaten because your body can supply the fat part of the equation (this is assuming excess fat on the body).

(The crazy German guy) #15

Ok, but if i start with the protein, i‘ll Not only pass the roughly 125g protein per day, i‘ll CRUSH it :wink: i can easily eat 400-600g protein per day!

#16

Because your protein is a target you really should be meeting (whatever level that is), and your proteins already likely have fats. You use the fats that are separate from your protein to fill the gap between your lack of satiety and satiety. If you build on fat first, you no longer have the lever. And if you get satiated before you finish your protein, you will be skimping on your protein. If you have enough body fat, and are fat adapted, you don’t need to worry about meeting some fat macro, especially if you choose proteins that have a lot of healthy fats.

It’s really not as rigid as you are thinking about it.

(Running from stupidity) #17

A 200g rump steak has about 60g of protein. So to eat 600g of protein, you’d need to eat two kilos of rump steak, which is quite a lot.

#18

I’m not sure how you do that, but perhaps you have some disordered eating patterns.

But this is the perfect example why you need to make the protein your base. So you plan your meal with the amount of protein that you need (as figured by however many meals you are having – hopefully not more than 3 per day). For example, if you have 3 meals per day, divide your daily protein requirement by 3. Then you add fats to that meal until you are satiated. Wash, rinse, repeat at the next meal. Then you keep from overeating your protein and you satisfy yourself with fats.

It’s ok the exceed your protein some, but probably not 4-6 times at much.

(The crazy German guy) #19

Got it.
Of course i got confused protein versus total mass of a steak. I can eat 600 g of steak per day no problem. But certainly not 600 g of protein.
Adding fats to my target protein amount seems more than feasible.
Normally I’m on an IF16-8 pattern so that should reduce the risk of over eating on proteins by avoiding a breakfast with for example scrambled eggs

#20

Everybody’s story is different but those kinds of figures are what I would expect.

Dr Jeff Volek Has done body composition studies with the keto diet. Group:-

A. CICO “eat less”
B. CICO with exercise
C. Keto no exercise
D. Keto with exercise

Group A lost a bit of fat. But good luck keeping it off. Millions have tried and failed that trick.

Groups B and C lost about the same fat.

No prize for guessing group D lost the most fat by about double!!

Notice I said fat loss not Weightloss. Because with exercise your crank up muscle thus adding some weight while losing some too.

If you eat too little you slow your metabolic rate down. If you eat a decent amount and exercise you will increase it and burn more at rest.

Eat until you feel full and if you want faster fat loss exercise.