Dr. Stephen Phinney on the Realities of Sustaining Keto diet

(Denise) #1

…and I will attach link to video I’ve been watching this morning. Very long, but a couple things I want to say. First, I don’t know how many times I’ve heard @PaulL mention Dr. Phinney, as well as Low Carb Down Under. I am seriously digging into it this a.m. and finding some really interesting things in this talk of Dr. Phinney’s.

Mostly about the actual studies (why I’ve put my post here). I was aware, somewhat, of the Intuit diet in the Arctic, but once again was awoken to it and a man called Stefanson and what he went through to prove his case.

So far, I’ve decided to lower my carbs to < 30g per day. Some I’ve been eating, besides the glycogen ones which I am only starting to learn about. In one part Dr. Phinney talks about there being sort of Pioneers and Settlers and I think I might be a pioneer although not in these people’s class. I guess you’ll have to listen to know what I’m talking about as not sure I can even explain it yet :wink:

I feel excited because I’m learning, bottom line, more things about the Ketogenic diet and Metabolic syndrome. I want more, I don’t want to ever stop learning. Here’s the video I am watching right now(I’ll have more to add I’m sure when I finish).: https://youtu.be/Hs0zzox-TF0

(May the blessing of bacon be always with you) #2

Dr. Phinney mentions, in one of his earlier lectures, that he embarked on an effort to prove Dr. Atkins wrong, only to end up proving the opposite. His many lectures on the YouTube channel maintained by Low Carb Down Under are a treasure trove of references to studies. There are also lectures to events organised by other groups, plus interviews on various sites. His research partner for many years has been Jeff S. Volek, who also has lectures available on YouTube. They are seminal researchers into the ketogenic diet, and they are the ones who coined the term “nutritional ketosis” (to distinguish it from diabetic ketoacidosis, which is a dangerous, possibly fatal, condition that afflicts Type I diabetics).

Vilhjalmur Stefansson (baptised William Stephenson) was a Canadian born to Icelandic immigrants, who spent years in the Arctic among the Inuit. (He had a wife and a son at one settlement in the far North.) When he returned to New York after an expedition of several years, he was derided for his claim that the Inuit lived on a diet of almost entirely meat (mostly seal and whale). He and a fellow explorer, Kirsten Andersen, were persuaded to allow themselves to be observed for a year at Bellevue Hospital. There are apparently several studies that reported on this experiment, but the one I am familiar with is by Walter S. McClellan and Eugene F. du Bois, “Prolonged meat diets with a study of kidney function and ketosis,” Clinical Calorimetry, 1930.

I don’t know what happened to Andersen afterward, but Stefansson remained a carnivore till his death in 1962 at the age of 83. He had retired to a small village in New Hampshire, and once said he was grateful that all the other residents were afraid of fat, because he got the trimmings from the butcher for next to nothing.

(Denise) #3

Yes, I’m really enjoyed Dr. Phinney, and thanks for more info on him (family etc.). I will look up other videos as well, and not just on Youtube :wink: ty Paul!


And for anyone reading this thread and even mildly intrigued to read one of the top books in this space: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Living/dp/0983490708/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3JXF9CJO7E261&keywords=art+science+volek&qid=1663010597&sprefix=art+science+volek%2Caps%2C226&sr=8-1

(Denise) #5

I’ll check it out Brian, ty much :slight_smile:

(Jane) #6

Well at least he had the backbone to own up to it… unlike a certain researcher cough A. Keys cough


Well Dr. Phinney says Keys came around later in life but no one wanted to here about it. I believe he has the paper Keys wrote saying he was incorrect, etc. as well. He has mentioned this in one of this talks.

(Denise) #8

I did find the book and it’s on it’s way to me. I don’t buy many but I did get a bit confused here and there listening to the video I watched so thought it would be great to have the book for further study :wink: Thanks again Brian!

It’s funny because tonight I just automatically threw in some brocoli after making a Pork tenderloin with fresh ginger and other “stuff” :wink: and just wondered why I had the vegies. Could have easily just eaten the tenderloin. I’ve done that a time or two, just ate my meat and that’s it. I’m sort of starting to lean more towards that although memories of “eat your vegies” comes to mind :wink:


Phinney is good, and he’s been at it a long time. And Low Carb Down Under is worth watching a LOT of vids on. And Lustig’s 10 million viewed video on sugar is still worth a view. I’ve watched it 3 times over the past 3 years. Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Taubes is one of the densest books I’ve read. 650 pages of meticulous research.

(Denise) #10

Wow, now I know what I’ll watch today!! All I’ve bought for some time now, has been Kindle digital books. A “real” book is harder for me to see, but I will look at the Taubes one as well. It’s all so fascinating I forget I need to get out of my chair and exercise :rofl: PS Lustig’s has 21 Mil now!!

(Jane) #11

Interesting - I have not heard that.

(May the blessing of bacon be always with you) #12

It was Peter Attia’s TED talk that introduced me to the idea that obesity did not cause diabetes, they were both caused by something else. And Dr. Lustig’s lecture on fructose gave me one of the clues. For some reason, those two videos got me to cut out sugar completely from my diet.

I then came across a couple of Dr. Phinney’s LCDU lectures, which introduced me to the notion of cutting carbohydrate. At first, I decided to worry simply about sugar, but after a couple of weeks, I felt so good that I decided to cut the rest of my carbs, as well. That’s when the real adventure began.

(Denise) #13

Hard to stop the video, Lustig speaks so clearly and I am really enjoying listening to him. I will find the Peter Attia’s TED talk as well. I’ll really have to force myself out of my chair now :wink: Lot’s of learning to be done and all with out a “student loan” :wink:

(Bob M) #14

You might not want to delve too much in Peter Attia, as he still believes LDL = bad and higher saturated fat = higher LDL. In my opinion, he has a some cognitive dissonance going on.

(Denise) #15

Ok, I can look into that. Why do you think people (like myself) have very high total cholesterol Bob? I don’t know why mine has to be 408 when others have theirs so low that are on Keto. Yes I eat eggs and meat so I consume a lot of cholesterol, but not more than I used to before keto and my level of ldl has never been so high. I know I have probably a 100 answers to that on here already, but it’s one thing that stumps me as I can’t seem to bring it down, or even know if I should. We all know what conventional medicine-men/women tell us to do :smirk::unamused:

(May the blessing of bacon be always with you) #16

I lost Attia after a while. He’s into really abstruse performance tweaking, which is not my interest. It was his TED talk, though, that really go my attention, and from there I was introduced to Gary Taubes’s books, Gary having founded NUSI with Peter.


There are people called hyperresponders (more often male than female), whose cholesterol goes up when they eat keto. There’s some citizen-funded science going on about this topic. I’m not one (my LDL is never over 100, and triglycerides under 50, ever since I first discovered low carb almost 25 years ago, and irritating to hear, I’m sure). Males are hyperresponders more often than females. Also a mystery why.

But for women, high LDL is only the 12th most important factor in heart attacks, and it’s merely a correlation, not necessarily causal. Too low cholesterol is correlated with stroke in women, so you don’t want that either! If you aren’t T2D, if your waist measurement is under 35 inches, your fasting glucose under 100, if you don’t smoke or drink, if you get just a bit of exercise a week (walking 4 times will do it), the risk of heart attack is quite low. See Dr. Berry on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Qlb3Jm0zQ The studies he is referencing are in his show notes (he always does this, so you can confirm for yourself he has good info.)

Keto for 90 days should take care of most of these risk factors for 90% of non-diabetics and probably close to 40% of diabetics. (Most are quite overweight and it could take a couple of years to get under a 35 inch waist.) Keto meaning for most women 20 total (not net) grams of carbs, and all from real food, not manufactured foods with “keto” printed big on the package. Eggs, cheese, salad, broccoli, (etc) to get to 20 grams or fewer total. I’m below 10 g most days and that’s perfectly healthy too.

(Denise) #18

I hope I am sticking with the topic because this isn’t in Dr. Phinney’s video, but I am trying super hard today to cut down on my carbs (they run around 40g or less) and no dairy. I guess we all have to regulate what works for us as individuals, it’s just that I want to stay ketogenic, or get further into it. It’s leading me to try more carnivore meals, and that is a little scarey to me. It seems so limited but I truly want to be as healthy as I can be.

(Denise) #19

Yes, I wonder about the LMHR and joined a group on FB just to see what they had to say. I am 5’2", 115 right now, and I was 140 when I started keto 20-21 months ago. My waist then was 4 inches more than now at 30". Today I will be a lot less in carbs if I keep eliminating them, but I think for me I better stick to 20 or less, not zero.

I just read that even my 2 tsp of turmeric I started to help with inflammation has carbs :grimacing: I knew my walnuts had quite a bit, and any nuts & seeds I like are not carb free either. But I am shooting for under 20 today and will come back later with info on how I do. Plus the dairy I think is causing a bigtime sinus/allergy issue that’s gotten worse in the last 6 years, but in the last year or so it got a bit better but not fully cleared up.
PS I do like Dr. Berry but I think he is more carnivore, but I could be wrong, haven’t watched him in awhile. Just didn’t get around to him lately.


This definitely resonated with me. I know I’ll never be a true carnivore, well at least I can’t visualize it at this point. I love salad, asparagus, artichokes(I know very high in carbs). I feel like something is missing without them. I have increased my protein greatly and since getting on this forum do have some carnivore meals. I’m not afraid of it, but over the last nine months I have so drastically altered my diet, that I want to enjoy my new woe. For me, steak and mushrooms or eggs and mushrooms is so enjoyable. So I’m hanging on.

I’m not sure if it was Dr. Fung, but someone on YouTube noted that one way to lose weight and control carbs is to limit the variety of food you eat. If you are bored, eating for nutrition and not pleasure, you will eat less.

Something for me to think about.