Dr Boz Calculates levels of autophagy using blood sugar/blood ketones ratio

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #102

Send me an email. She is right off of 288. Not sure if she is taking new patients.

(Herb Martin) #103

Dr. Boz recommends checking Glucose/Ketones 3-4 times per day in the beginning.

A bit much for most people but I like to see data so it’s nice to have an authoritative “good reason” to explain my obsessiveness :grinning:

Generally, I am checking always on waking, perhaps at dinner time (when I feed my wife and the dogs), and then later, perhaps at bedtime.

Today is water fast day #11:

  • BG: 66 Ketone: 6.9 GKI: 0.53

  • BP: 103/54 pulse: 59

  • Weight: 207 Loss 10.5 days: 25.5 lbs Total: 75.5 lbs

  • Sleep: 8 hours actual, no waking

  • Comment: No soreness from the significant fall I took from height onto the concrete.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #104


Do you have any idea how much weight you will regain on a couple of days of refeeding?

When done please give us a detailed update. If Autophagy is a real thing (I’m assuming it is) they surely you are getting it going. I’m interested in loose skin and more. Arggg the devil is in the details.

(Barbara) #105

Yeah! I’ve notices there are now “wrinkles” where the rolls and bulges were!!! I’d be smaller and weigh less without the excess skin.

(Windmill Tilter) #106

Here is a chart from a fasting study that compares ketone production as a function of obesity during fasting. I thought it might be of interest to BKI aficionados. It looks like during short fasts, the leaner you are, the faster you increase ketone production. It also appears that women increase ketone bodies more quickly than men. It’s a really interesting study (linked below the pic).


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #107

Thanks - very informative.
I’m obese and my BHB runs 1.0 to 2.2 when fasting. The pee sticks still show up with dark colors. The above graph tells me I’m in the middle of the pack for ketone production for obese people.

The follow explains why my pee strips still show up with urine ketones.

(Herb Martin) #108


It is certainly possible to regain 21 lbs (or more) in 5 days after a big fast like this.

How do I know? I did a 12 day fast 5 days before this one and did precisely that. I was even DEEPLY ketogenic for the first 2 days of refeeding and was eating only CARNIVORE so no carbs.

I ate everything in sight (that was meat) and enjoyed myself immensely.

However, I was not refeeding judiciously nor with an eye to holding the weight loss.

I wasn’t particularly hungry but simply enjoying myself and happy.

However, I certainly did NOT gain all the fat so much of this was simply water. (I could see that in my reduced belly etc.)

Some was probably “gut contents”, and more was “liver stores” for glycogen.

It also made the weight loss this time proceed 20% faster – or more. 12 days for 21 lbs where no I have 11 days for 25.5.

My plan is to refeed quite a bit more carefully this time, and to go a bit deeper than my (short-term) goal to allow for rebound.

At the final goal weight I’ll do this too. Go to goal, take a short break (keto/carnivore), then do a 7-day or longer fast to drive the weight down about 5-7% further (10 lbs?).

This will allow me to rebound to goal.

Many people make the mistake of reaching goal and believing they can hold that.

This is SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE unless you remain in a weight loss mode.

After you end your fast, “quick fat” and “quick carb” emergency stores will replenish at a minimum. You’ll also pick up some water in all likelihood.

(Herb Martin) #109

I think it is just the short length of your fast Daddy.

Otherwise, I have to surmise that you are insulin resistant and maybe aren’t making glucagon efficiently. (I’m not an expert so this might be total hogwash however.)

I was certainly obese when I started these 2 fasts near the end of February, and my ketones ramped up to 4, then 5,6,7 fairly quickly.

My ketosticks also seem to track the meter as does my wife’s who is a reborn keto dieter.

My sticks didn’t get to purple or deep purple until my meter was pretty high, maybe 3 or more.

For three days I’ve been running right near 7 (at the 9th-11th day.)

Those charts are only going to 8 days and we don’t know the level of obesity.

These people need their body to relearn the art of ketone production and produce the glucagon to activate that.

(Karim Wassef) #110

My experience mirrors Martin’s.

I gained 20 lbs in about 2 weeks

(RossanaF) #111

Yes, Keto-mojo has the best deal now. I compared Amazon, eBay and Walmart.

(Herb Martin) #112

I didn’t find Keto-Mojo appreciably better than Precision Xtra, and the range of buying additional strips meant more freedom and likely better prices for additional strips.

In the final analysis, I bought the precision because the older ReliOn Ultima meters use the same (glucose) strips as the Precision so we have interchangeability with the 3+ older meters we own.

(My wife also has a new ReliOn Premiere which uses complete different strip.)

Both KetoMojo and Precision Xtra are excellent dual purpose meters.

(RossanaF) #113

Thank you!

(Wendy) #114

Well I wouldn’t say impossible since I got to my goal of 132 and now find myself at 122 lbs. I never did extended fasts but did EF most days. Now I increase my fat, eat more veggies and nuts and allow myself berries and as many nuts as is like. I’m pretty sure my intake of food is up but I still find myself losing some.
So never say it’s simply impossible.

(Wendy) #115

My apologies, you were referring to after a fast. I believe you are correct on that.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #116

Is this really did IF?

(Karim Wassef) #117

Actually, that is a big difference between daily IF and EF. It is actually impossible to not see weight recovery after a multi-day EF and this is perfectly healthy and different from fat gain.

On an EF, the body loses a massive volume of water and purges all the food flux and consumes glycogen stores. Then it continues to ferment fiber in the gut making short chain fatty acids for a couple of days or longer and getting into gluconeogenesis to make glucose from protein and then start fat oxidation…

Depending on the length of the fast, the body also starts to shrink digestive organs that are minimally used … this reduces weight.

On a refeed, much of this reverses and so weight gain is intentional and healthy. It’s not fat gain, but it is weight gain in the form of lean mass recovery, water, glycogen, and food flux.

(Wendy) #118

Yeah. :yum::slight_smile:

(KCKO, KCFO) #119

Is this what you meant to say? Sounds like two blood glucose measures to me?

You are doing very well by the way.

(Paul) #120

Hi Herb

I can be impacient as well. Now on day 11 of my water fast, it cant go fast enough, no pun inteneded. Dropped 7 Kg and feel pretty good now. The first week was real bad.
Now have a flat (ish) belly.

Go for it…even if its just for the benefit of autophagy, clearing everything old out…

(Dee In NY, US wasT2D. Started keto June 14, 2019) #121


I’ve read 2 of Dr. Fung’s books and watched several of his interviews and I’ve only heard him say that’s he’s never referred anyone for skin removal surgery, which isn’t the sam at all.

I also heard Megan say during 1 YouTube interview that she’s lost over 100 lbs, but haven’t seen any before/after pics or whether or not her skin shrunk.

Is there any proof or clarification of those claims?