Dr. Atkins

#12

2.5kg fat-loss in a week is plain impossible for most of us under normal circumstances, it’s not realistic. I simply never had a big enough body to be able to do that even theoretically (but I was very happy with my 300g on low-carb).

But doing keto doesn’t mean we will lose any fat, it’s not magic… We need to eat properly, it’s only/mostly calories in my case, apparently but many items may interfere according to many people’s experience (my problem items interfere with my macros and well-being even if they alone can’t stop fat-loss so I avoid many things myself). Some tweaking may be needed. But maybe patience is needed, your body may focus on more important things than fat-loss. With your weight fat-loss can’t be particularly important health wise and many people has problems losing when our weight is already this low (even if it’s still a bit high for us).

So, I would wait first.

How much do you eat in macros? Exact percentages usually don’t really matter, I only keep that in a smaller range because of my taste most of the time and because a too high fat intake would result in either too little protein or overeating. Some people are more sensitive to that and therapeutic keto often has its specific percentages but one can do keto and lose fat with 60% and 80% fat alike. Or less or more but I hardly could pull off that without messing with my protein or calorie intake. But it may work for someone else. (Surely some people go over 90% fat as they need A TON of calories and there is a thing as too much protein. But it’s an extreme case.)

Don’t worry about protein, most of us can’t go too high. I always stop at 220-230g (my need is hardly above 100g but I need more for satiation) but I am a short woman without much muscle mass or activity. Some people in this forum regularly eat way more without problems.

Makes exactly zero sense to me but people are interesting, maybe it’s true for someone, directly or indirectly… Too much protein is unhealthy though but it’s a huge amount, first we have unnecessarily high territory, I live my life there. 2 times my need in average (my vague guess but definitely not much less than that) but I feel fine and have no idea how to go even lower… My body likes it, it’s just not strictly needed.

#13

How close are you to your goal weight? If you are not very overweight/obese, the fat loss may be slower and you may need to be more patient.

Some people say calories don’t matter when you eat low carb. I am not one of those people. If I overeat fat and/or eat above my maintenance calories, I do not lose weight. Or worse - I gain weight. You are eating calorie dense foods like bacon, cheese, olive oil etc. Try tracking your calories for a week to make sure you are not consuming too much calories.

I see no issues with upping your salads, mushroom etc if it helps with feeling full. Adding other animal protein sources should be fine too.

Technically, almond flour bread and diet ginger ale are allowed on keto. However, some people find that this stalls their weight loss. You may want to cut these out for now to see if it helps.

(KCKO, KCFO) #14

You have not had time to fat adapt yet. It can take up to a month or even longer according to Dr. Phinney.

Those big drops before are probably all water weight anyway.

Pay attention to other things besides the scales, how do your clothes fit, how is your mental clarity, mood, etc. The scales are not the be all and end all.

Are you following the Atkins 20, it is a get starter plan. If not link is in this post:

Goodonya for supporting your husband. I do that as well, he controls his T2D with diet and exercise very successfully and it helps me to maintain as well. We have even progressed to higher levels of carbs than 20, most days it is about 50, but can go up to 100 for special occasions. We both like this WOE.

You have some good suggestions in other posts here. Be patient.

(Bob M) #15

While I like your other recommendations, mushrooms are probably immaterial. It’s hard to eat too many mushrooms.

Personally, I’d take it slowly. And I’m not a fan of “macros” at all. Don’t like them. Don’t need them. Don’t find them useful. Been doing this 9 years, and have never once figured out what my “macros” are.

Just eat low carb, aiming fairly low at first. I personally find I do better with lower fat, higher protein. So, I tend to avoid a lot of cheese and dairy. I still eat it, I just don’t eat a lot of it.

Personally, bacon = overeating for me, so I avoid that too.

Keep eating low carb, and if things turn out not to meet your goals, try different things. Try not eating dairy for a while. No difference? Reintroduce it. Try replacing fattier foods with higher protein, lower fat foods. Say, ham/lean pork instead of bacon; lean beef instead of fattier foods. No difference? It probably wasn’t the fat.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #16

Right.Up.Front, I’d like to state unequivocally that I am the last person to ever advocate ‘one size fits all’ or that ‘what works for me will necessarily work for you’. We can, however, learn from each other’s experiences, tribulations and mistakes. That’s really what this forum is all about.

I’ve been eating keto for 5 years and a month. For 4 1/2 of those 5 years I have weighed 145 pounds with BF of 14-15%. Those numbers match my weight and BF during the peak of my youth when I was a middle-distance runner during ages 17 - 23. I am now 76 years old and I will take it! :+1:

Yes, I have definitely been the beneficiary of benevolent genes. I ate bog standard SAD all the years of my life until I started keto at the age of 71. I drank a lot of beer and ate pretty much the equivalent of a loaf of bread daily. What I was not was a sugar-holic - I was never much interested in ‘sweet’. During the decade of my 60s I gained about 30 - 35 pounds of excess mass. All of it came off within the first 6 months of keto with no difficulty. In fact, I never felt the slightest bit of hunger even when I was eating a 1000 calorie per day deficit during the first 3 months of keto.

I’ve been a member of this forum for 3+ years and one common comment is that many folks say they could not continue keto if they had to track and measure their food every day. OK, I accept that for some folks it would be an onerous task. Yet, at the same time, most reports of lack of success - either weight loss or maintenance, dealing with illness - come from these same folks. My first and prime suspicion is they’re overeating carbs.

20 grams of carbs is a very small amount. If you think you can guestimate it you’re just fooling yourself. In many cases, due to metabolic dysfunction and/or insulin resistance and/or specific food issues, you will have to consume even less carbs per day and your chance of guessing correctly is non-existent.

Of course, some folks might experience other issues than simply overeating carbs - food allergies and/or reactions, PUFA overconsumption, for examples. But to sustain ketosis the carbs are the most significant thing over which you have 100% control.

If you have no problems remaining consistently in ketosis and sustaining overall metabolic health - then I salute you, carry on! But if you experience any of multiple problems and don’t weigh and measure - carbs if nothing else - it seems to me your solution is very simple.

Just my opinions.

(Alec) #17

If you are going to have breakfast, avoiding carbs is most important at this meal because the longer we go with as low insulin as possible the better. Nothing against mushrooms per se (except that they are carbs), it was more the timing of those carbs that I think could be better for weight loss.

(KCKO, KCFO) #18

Again, it depends on the person. My husband does much better with more carbs at breakfast then say dinner time. Lunch is ok, but he still does better with them at breakfast.

I usually skip and don’t track my BS except occasionally, so not sure how I would react. But he has tried many variations and breakfast is his carb time.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #19

Sorry, but I fail to follow. You say your husband ‘does much better’ eating more carbs at breakfast. Presuming he is T2D, does his overnight BS continue to get lower after eating his ‘more carbs’ at breakfast? Does his BS rise if he does not eat carbs at breakfast - over and above what he could normally expect from the ‘dawn effect’?

Since eating glucose - the real name of carbs - is unnecessary for good health and elevates insulin, I fail to understand just how eating it enables one to do ‘much better’ in the case of diabetes and related dysfunction.

Is you husband eating keto? Or just ‘lower’ carbs?

(KCKO, KCFO) #20

Lower carbs and he walks 2x a day and does yoga or dances with me each day. He checks his bs after the walks and other exercise. He doesn’t eat sugary stuff, only some grain and potatoes, those are the main carbs, he also doesn’t eat a lot of them. If he has a grain bun in the evening, it doesn’t work out well. If he has one at lunch he is fine. For breakfast his carby thing is gravy and some days he will have a few hash browns with the eggs and meat. He has done a lot of experimenting and he gets his best result doing it this way. He has a hard time keeping weight on, when he stops grain and potatoes completely, he goes too low. At 6’ and 140 lbs, he has no strength, so he struggles to get up to 150 and stay there or a bit over. He would love to get back to 160, but I don’t think that will be happening anytime soon.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #21

@collaroygal Thanks. For reference, as I mentioned above I’m 76 years old, 145 pounds and 14-15% BF. Additionally, I’m also 6’ tall and I lose weight easier than gain. I must eat consistently within my daily maintenance window to maintain my weight. My original goal was 160 pounds, but I feel just fine at 145 and have been there long enough to accept it as my ‘new normal’ - actually my ‘original normal’.

I eat to fat:protein macros of 2:1 grams and 4.5:1 calories. Carbs are sub-15 grams and frequently sub-10 and once or twice a week sub-5. I do not feel weak but I’m certainly not going to pump iron any time soon. I think I get ‘tired’ instead of ‘weak’. I don’t know how eating carbs would be of any benefit. Then, I’ve always been relatively metabolically healthy, so I can understand that could make a significant difference overall.

I have a full-time job at Walmart, so I work 5 days per week there. My job requires me to be physically active - it’s a standabout, walkaround, lift/carry and interact with customers and other staff. Here, here and here, for examples. I’m generally very tired by the end of the day, and frequently totally exhausted by the end of a work week, especially if I have to work 4-6 days consecutive. I’ve had the job for 3 1/2 years and look forward to going to work both for the exercise and the interaction with customers and staff. I could otherwise easily become a sedentary recluse. I have a degenerated disc at the base of my spine which limits my flexibility and causes chronic pain. Moving helps keep me moving.

(Pat) #22

I am 69 kg and 4’11. According to the chart in the Atkins book I am obese. I would like to lose 10kgs and to be able to fit the to the clothes I wore before I put weight on.
I retired in 2019, I was 64 kg then. Previously I had been 62kg and active at work. I was a support worker and that involved a lot of walking and being on my feet most of the day.
When we retired we decided to do cleaning for an agency to keep us active. As the time went on our jobs dwindled especially when covid hit and now we only work once a week but we do go for a walk most days.
I have no problem eating low carb and I do keep track of them properly not just guessing a salad is low carb by looking at it.
The almond bread is homemade and works out to 1.3g carbs per roll of which I have one third at any one time so I wouldn’t have more than one roll per day if that.
The calories work out to between 1790 and 2000 per day.
The ginger ale stops me from having a gin and tonic.
It seems I have been eating too much fat and not enough protein.
I will cut down on the fat (I did up the amount for the diet) and see how that goes.
I wondered about the mushrooms as there are no carbs in the ones I eat.

(Pat) #23

I also have to keep tack of my husbands carbs and keep those low too. He’s so far lost just under 9kgs in 4 months.

#24

wondering tho, did you do Induction Phase of 0 carb and eat only from the Induction food list?
See I don’t know ‘the New Atkins’, but I do know the old school first book, the first book he wrote in 1972 works :slight_smile: In that book you wouldn’t be eating any bread til maybe the last chaper in the book and that is a very long way thru the atkins journey, and only if you do well eating bread.

Key being Old Atkins when it came out does Induction Phase which is biological 0 carb and that is the elimination phase to begin and then the add back is very slow and methodical, if ya wanna really do that atkins correctly.

(Pat) #25

No I got the Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution published in 2003 which I think was his last.
I remember the old book in 1972 and attempted that one but didn’t stick to it. I can’t remember it being zero carbs though.
In the book I have I am following the induction list of foods but Dr Atkins says no more than 20 g carbs which should come mostly from salad and vegetables. Cheese is included in the induction list.

#26

yea they are very different in a way

Induction from the original book actually written by him when this first started is 0 biological carbs for a week. The veg was 1 cup leafy greens or a pickle…choose one LOL The original atkins was very very controlled and precise. Espeically with climbing the carb ladder after Induction.

The new atkins is more just like a general low carb approach in a way ya know.

Google the old book. it has tons of just the best darn stuff in it :slight_smile: Original atkins might give you some
more info to help? wishing you the best!!

(Mark Rhodes) #27

Another thing to consider is lipedma This link has a very good definition and visual guide. Not all subcutaneous fat is the same . If after a good steady course of well formulated Keto things are not happening, then you might have to look into other issues. Lipedema is as far as I can tell part of a whole host of syndromes stemming from autoimmune issues. My wife’s HOMA-IR has been under one for over 2 years. It is certainly not insulin that is holding her back. Nor is it VAT. Her Trig/HDL ratio is 0.9. She does have an exceedingly high Mercury load and we are investigating the SMART program for amalgam removal. it was so high te county contacted us asking if there was a spill. “No, just in the fillings and food” I sadi. “Oh, then that’s okay” WTAF? anyway.

After 6 years of keto and 4 months of carnivore plus extensive fasting, my wife’s weight will not budge. However she has what appears to be Stage Two Lipedema. We have consulted with Karen Ashforth

I would follow the adivce of most given here. Keep Calm, Keto On. If however you do match one of the stages of lipedma your keto will not look like others.

Good Luck

#28

When I was 69kg and 5’4", I never lost fat eating 2000 kcal (my diet didn’t matter. it never does, it seems) as it was too many calories for me (it was great to reach 69kg, I loved it. but that’s it, never could go below with that amount). And my metabolism was pretty okay, I simply wasn’t active or muscular enough to use more. Many women with my data would gain eating that much. So it’s possible you eat too much. But your protein should be fine if your 26% mentioned earlier was a normal day. I don’t need even that much protein - but it’s still better for me to go higher (oh I wrote about it already). So you can play with your macros a bit. Eating too fatty food (it’s individual what is too fatty, it matters what items we choose) raises my calories too much. Most protein works better, harder (impossible) to overeat… I still need much fat for calories so I need to find the right ratio. It’s not a fixed one at all but it’s better if I am careful with very fatty protein sources. And even more careful with carbs but many people don’t go somewhat crazy from them. I do.
Definitely don’t force some lower calorie intake on you, eat as much as you need. But with different food choices you may get satiated with less. Or not less but still better for your fat-loss for some reason. I don’t think you need to eat more, it’s true for some though… Unless you feel so, ideally our body tells us what it wants and it’s our body, it knows better than us if it works well… I just offer things to it, try things and it tells me if it likes me and I see on my numbers that I found some unusually satiating food or not at all…

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #29

Good point, Mark, thanks.

And good to hear from you.

#30

Just stay on “induction” indefinitely.

(Kirk Wolak) #31

There is a lot here that can affect things.
no carb dry ginger ale… If you are insulin resistant (and it sounds like it), drinking SWEET things just keeps the addiction alive, AND can cause an insulin release!

Personally, the brie and almond bread would have to go.
Also, I wouldn’t drink anything but water after dinner.
Finally, are you measuring your ketones? (If I blindfolded you… Could you drive to the store?)

I am amazed by the people who want to produce a SPECIFIC chemistry in their body, but they don’t know they should measure their Glucose and Ketones to determine how they are doing… (Driving blindfolded).

You may not have lost an ounce. But what if your glucose is down nicely? If you were just starting to make ketones? I find measuring these things to be incredibly important. Because, like you, I can go extended periods without losing weight. If I look closely, I will see my glucose is out of whack… And a few times, it was caused SIMPLY BY a stressful set of work events!!!

But how can I expect my body to be dealing with Stress… Providing me the brain energy to power through things, and somehow keep my glucose down?

Step 1. Keep At it. It’s not a straight line, and you have the rest of your life!
Step 2. Please consider Measuring your glucose/ketone levels, first thing in the morning.
Step 3. Experiment for 1 week of doing ONE change, and see how it impacts your numbers.

Unfortunately, Every Body is Different.
Read this post for some insights…